Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 14:05:25 -0700
From: Michael Pugliese <debsian-AT-pacbell.net>
Subject: AUT: Fw: Fw: Re: Re: Re: IMHO, You Both Are Wrong (Chris & N&L)



----- Original Message -----
From: "harry kershner" <hkershner35-AT-lycos.com>
To: "Michael Pugliese" <debsian-AT-pacbell.net>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Re: Re: IMHO, You Both Are Wrong (Chris & N&L)


> The holocaust could not have occurred without the Treaty of Versailles and
acts of imperialism which threw the Germans into the hands of the Nazis.
There are fascists (and fascist apologists like Pugliese) everywhere, but
they cannot easily recruit membership except under harsh economic and social
conditions. This is so obvious that even a third-rate mind like Pugliese's
can grasp it, so when he denies its relevance we can see the malevolent
ideological constructs which underlie that denial.
>
>  No one I know, and certainly not Chomsky, is eulogizing Islamic
fundamentalism. In addition to finding and bringing to justice the
perpetrators of this crime against humanity, we must examine the foreign and
investment policies of the US that cause the ease of recruitment in the Arab
and Muslim world. Failing this, no military or police actions will protect
us in the future.
> --
>
> On Fri, 05 Oct 2001 12:01:14
>  Michael Pugliese wrote:
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Harald Beyer-Arnesen" <haraldba-AT-online.no>
> >To: <aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> >Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 2:49 AM
> >Subject: AUT: Re: Re: Re: IMHO, You Both Are Wrong (Chris & N&L)
> >
> >
> >> Chris, that Islamism in several aspects is more reactionary than
> >> U.S. imperialism, as much as it is, in part but only in part, a
> >> product of it, is just to state the obvious. What needs to be explained
> >> is why some many leftist are willing to deny what stares them in
> >> the eye. Is it ignorance or something more irrational.
> >>
> >> The urge to explain _everything_ out from U.S. foreign policy
> >> becomes pretty "mindless" and religious.
> >>
> >> Islamism, fascist to its core, is also very much an expression of a
high
> >> degree of irrationality: a poisoneous combine of the worst of an
Islamic
> >> past and modern capitalist alienation, as well as imperialist project
in
> >> itself.
> >>
> >> The failure to come up with a political critique of Islam as such, and
> >> silence such critique from revolutionaries from regions where this
still
> >> is life and death question, only to put forth a gallery of Imams as the
> >> true voices of the working classes in this parts, speaks loud. It is a
> >> celebration of silence confronted by anything we might find difficult
> >> uncomfortable to address.
> >>     I am only awaiting an proclamation declaring that the present Pope,
> >> as all the previous,  always were  true revolutionaries.
> >>
> >> One of the greatest failures of the post World War II "left" is the
lack
> >> of any real effort to address Rwanda. France was all to blame, were
> >> they? No other understanding is needed, even if the French were
> >> not the ones who actually carried out the genocide. It is like saying
> >> that the Holocaust can all be explained by British imperialism and
> >> the VersailleTreaty.
> >>
> >> The world cannot be reduced to the United States of America.
> >>
> >> Harald
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -In times like this, when people are under
> >> >attack because they are Middle Eastern, or assumed to be Middle
Eastern
> >or
> >> >Muslim (like the Sikh man killed in Arizona or the racist mob that
wanted
> >> to
> >> >march on a mosque in the Chicago area, where I live), when the
government
> >> is
> >> >rounding up hundreds of Muslim and Arab men and women, often under the
> >> >flimsiest pre-texts, then I am extremely sensitive to anything which
> >> renders
> >> >the people who committed this act as 'mindless', or which claims that
> >this
> >> >act was 'irrational' and had no political content.  I am sorry, but
that
> >is
> >> >wrong AND it is political abdication of analysis.  It is allowing the
US
> >> off
> >> >the hook.  I am not satisfied when I have a leading News and Letters
> >person
> >> >tell me that some forces in this world are more reactionary than US
> >> >imperialism (that is a quote) or read about the need to defend
"Western"
> >> >society's progressive gains, which reminds me always of Ghandi's
comment
> >> >when asked what he thought about Western Civilization: "Sounds like a
> >good
> >> >idea."  This combined with the mindless/irrational/apolitical comments
> >> makes
> >> >a potent stew.  I see no reason to soft-pedal my arguments against
> >> political
> >> >nonsense, especially when 'midless' and 'inexplicable' are the
favorite
> >> >catchphrases of the media and polticians.  It is explicable.  Hatred
of
> >the
> >> >US is quite explicable and has got to be understood.  If one refuses
to
> >> >attempt to explain this, then one refuses analysis of what happened.
> >> >Fundamentalism is explicable and in fact is directly related to
processes
> >> >like globalization and the recomposition of global labor and the
existing
> >> >political situation in the Middle East.  These are NOT mysteries.
> >>
> >>
> >> >I would like to take up the question of anti-Arab and anti-Muslim
racism
> >> >however at some point.  I will post something I wrote that develops
the
> >> >political content of the letter from N&L, but I will only post the
> >relevant
> >> >political points.  I only mention it because it is worth reading their
> >> reply
> >> >to see what I am addressing.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>      --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> >
>
>
> Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
> http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp



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