From: "Nate Holdren" <nateholdren-AT-hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: AUT: highest form of capitalism
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:24:03 -0500


Greg-
I'm not really that familiar with Lenin, so I apologize if this is a dumb 
question. You said that Lenin "puts forward imperialism as being a product 
of the self-socialisation of capital and in the final chapter specifies 
greater socialization to follow (post-imperialism)". I think I remember you 
saying elsewhere with regard to the former Soviet Union that much of capital 
was still socialized and that socialization of capital was either 
irreversible or tremendously difficult to reverse.
That it should be tremendously difficult to reverse makes sense to me, as 
the process of socialization is also a difficult and painful process, but 
why would the process be irreversible? Is it true that capital can never 
turn back the clock, reconfiguring to look something like a previous era? I 
can see why capital would not want to do this, generally, but is it 
genuinely impossible for capital to do so?
Thanks.
Nate


>
>Bravo Carrol!
>
>How often we chase mirages. "Stage" is just a noun implying nothing more 
>than a particular set-up, the original English reference is to plays, the 
>stages of which were the changed scenery within a single production. It is 
>a useful word/concept whenever anything that has distinct changes is 
>mentioned - but "phase" would do as well.
>
>As for the Russian word translated into "highest" that could also be 
>translated into "latest", I didn't know this and find this simple 
>resolution quite charming and it makes perfect sense either way (I suppose 
>"highest" can imply "highest so far"  just as much as "highest obtainable", 
>after all we seem to have no problem with stating some athelete has made 
>the highest jump without implying that sometime in the future someone might 
>exceed it - I don't believe highest implies a strong absolute).
>
>Of course in the details of Lenin's analysis in "Imperialism, the latest 
>phase of capitalism" he puts forward imperialism as being a product of the 
>self-socialisation of capital and in the final chapter specifies greater 
>socialization to follow (post-imperialism), which does not effect anything 
>you hae said on the issue. But I would amend Lenin's title again, and 
>re-enforce the reading which you have demolished, to "Imperialism the Final 
>Stage of Private Capitalism" as compatable perhaps, not with reasonable 
>translation but, to the theory being expressed within its pages (note this 
>does not imply an end to capitalism, but to a particular form of it).
>
>
>--- Message Received ---
>From: Carrol Cox <cbcox-AT-ilstu.edu>
>To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:51:16 -0600
>Subject: Re: AUT: highest form of capitalism
>
>
>
>Nate Holdren wrote:
> >
> >  What I
> > don't like about the higher/lower model is I think it implies that only
> > after the highest stages have been reached can revolution occur. Am I
> > misunderstanding this or no?
> > thanks.
> > Nate
>
>
>Possibly this goes back to an ambiguity in Russian, the word which has
>been translated as "highest" could also have merely meant "latest." And
>"stage" is a tricky word in that it _ought not_ to be a technical term
>but merely a common noun to be interpreted according to context. Then in
>some contexts (and I think Lenin's) it merely means "what's happening
>now," and has no greater theoretical purchase. Many, both pro- and
>anti-Leninists have tried to make a big deal of it.
>
>There is far more room for contingency in historical materialism than
>many will acknowledge. Actually, Stephen Gould's _Wonderful Life_ (as
>well  as many of his essays) is good on the matter of contingency, and
>of its _easy_ compatibility with seeing order in either history or
>biology.
>
>Carrol
>
>
>Greg Schofield
>Perth Australia
>g_schofield-AT-dingoblue.net.au

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