From: "Nate Holdren" <nateholdren-AT-hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: AUT: Perplexing left silliness
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:32:34 -0500


Greg-
Sorry this discussion hasn't been your favorite so far. There have been some 
problems with it. Personally, though, I've enjoyed it (and t that IS one 
reason I'm on this list, because I enjoy it, which doesn't make me any less 
revolutionary). And I've found it valuable to get some clarity on the 
positions of two comrade both of whom I disagree with in different ways 
(Ilan and Scott). That clarity makes it easier for me to have a productive 
conversation because I know better where my disagreements are and where were 
just misunderstandings or misreadings.
If you haven't enjoyed the discussion, you could join in and raise some 
points. Or if you think the whole discussion is silly you could just delete 
the emails, like some of us have been doing with the Cuba argument. Even 
better, you could propose a new topic or start a new and better discussion 
that addresses what you want addressed. One point that is not helpful 
though, is to wade in, chastise us, and express that we disgust you. When 
you do that I just want to be rude and swear at you or delete your email 
without replying.

cheers
Nate

>From: Greg Schofield <g_schofield-AT-dingoblue.net.au>
>Reply-To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>To: aut op sy <aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
>Subject: AUT: Perplexing left silliness
>Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:02:05 +0800
>
>I am sorry comrades but this sad self-justifications going on in the 
>"perplexing Ilan", "Peter" and "Scott" are not only impossible to follow 
>but typify what is the worst aspects of the left's ridiculous self 
>importance.
>
>Theory and clarification is one thing, but this bickering and posturing is 
>pathetic.
>
>Where are the concepts, the ideas, the grappling with the complexities of 
>reality in all this. At first I thought I would intervene and berate some 
>contributors and seek to find some semblence of rationality. But I confess 
>I give up - it is not worth the effort.
>
>Stop labeling one another, stop the childish name calling, and for God's 
>sake stop proclaiming some title as your own which seemingly raises your 
>views above criticism.
>
>On the Spain 1936 which seems to inevitably crop up. I have had the honour 
>of meeting communists, international brigaders, republicans, anarchists, 
>anarcho-syndacalists and POUM fighters. Of them collectively celebrating 
>the death of Franco outside the Spainish embassy. This shadow play of 
>loyalities for past battles is shameful, shameful for the real lives spent 
>struggling for a better world.
>
>We do not judge the past, the dead are buried, we seek to understand it. If 
>any of you think this understanding translates meaningfully into some pat 
>slogan you are fooling yourselves and belittling a movement which should 
>stand for so much more than these pitiful ego trips..
>
>In short grow up!
>
>There is only one flag and it is red, one name and it is communist. I would 
>include self-proclaimed anarchists in this, but I will not debate names or 
>rags with anyone - either you are on the side of the working class or you 
>are not - that is the fence that separates the sheep from the goats - there 
>is no other.
>
>Turn you minds to reality, stop trying to squeeze it into formulas for it 
>will never fit, it is never neat, it is always more than meets the eye, nor 
>can it ever be wholly comprehended. The tendency which there seems plenty 
>of evidence in these dismal threads, of creating utopian schemes dressed as 
>theoretical insight that magically overcome all problems is as mispent as 
>the quest for the philosopher's stone. You will never create gold this way 
>but you will wallow in plenty of dross.
>
>Public, political, mastabation, cheap one liners and plucking isolated past 
>epsiodes as proofs absolute, is the normal practice of right-wingers.
>
>Yours in growing disgust,
>Greg Schofield
>Perth Australia
>g_schofield-AT-dingoblue.net.au
>_______________________________________________
>_______________________________________________
>
>Use LesTecML Mailer (http://www.lestec.com.au/)
>* Powerful filters.
>* Create you own headers.
>* Have email types launch scripts.
>* Use emails to automat your work.
>* Add comments on receive.
>* Use scripts to extract and check emails.
>* Use MAID to create taylor-made solutions.
>* LesTecML Mailer is fully controlled by REXX.
>* A REXX interpreter is freely available.
>_______________________________________________
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>      --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



     --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---