From: "Greg Schofield" <g_schofield-AT-dingoblue.net.au>
Subject: Re: AUT: What could "proletarian socialism" possibly mean?
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:42:29 +0800


Nico this helps a little. But such autonegation is Proletarian Socialism. 

I can only see a contradiction from the point of view that socialism is identified with communism completely, or a bizarre point of view that capitalism is negated within itself before ever proceeding to socialism (which is a bit late given the present socialisation of the means of production - in that we have a form of boourgeois socialism and no sign of autonegation naturally enough).

If Harald is making the first mistake then it is an easy matter of pointing out the difference between the first phase and second phase of communism (the first being the transition to the second from capitalism proper). If the second point of view is what is being touted well I am flabber-gasted as this is pure ahistorical moonshine.

As a tactic, or even a selforganisational principle, such as "refusal of work" has a place, but what else is expected of it?

Nico I am sorry about this but I am increasingly dismayed at such basic misunderstandings, thank you for clarifying these points but I am still at a loss. Is the historical nature of communism as misunderstood as I am fearing?

Seriously. Has Harald got socialism and communism mixed up?

--- Message Received ---
From: Cercle social <cerclesocial-AT-altern.org>
To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:41:43 +0100
Subject: Re: AUT: What could "proletarian socialism" possibly mean?

The contradiction seems clear in a communisation point aof view :   the
communist movement abolishes classes,  proletariat abolish itself
(autonegation), as the class of work in the capital contradiction. Only
proletariat can lead communist movement, but the realization is
self-dissolution of proletariat as a separate class in society. That's why
antiwork movement (refusal of work) is so important to understand
correctly -- as long as organized worker movement will identify itself to
work, it will stay inside the capital contradiction and, in revolutionnary
times, become fetishied work against workers. Seidamn (Workers against work)
explain this well about spanish revolution.

For french readers, the review Theorie Communiste explain it as well -- in a
sometime unreadable way. Also Gilles Dauv  "les rvolutionnaires ont iols
une contre-rvolution de retard ?".

Nico



Greg Schofield
Perth Australia
g_schofield-AT-dingoblue.net.au
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