Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:22:30 -0800 (PST)
From: asc <satellitecrash-AT-yahoo.com>
Subject: AUT: is leninism dead? was: Flooding


--- "Harry M. Cleaver" <hmcleave-AT-eco.utexas.edu>
wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Louis Proyect wrote:
> 
> > If
> > one Leninist can cause so much consternation on an
> email list dominated by
> > automats, how do you expect to defeat Leninism in
> the real world?
> 
> Leninism was defeated long ago. Sometimes tho,
> people find it amusing to
> fence with ghosts. It would also be nice to have a
> Fourierist butt in
> sometimes, but hey, you can't have everything.

Hey autopsy,
At the risk of defending louis proyect (and i'm no
leninist but maybe more sympathetic to it than most on
this list) what about the moaist group in nepal that
controls a 1/3 of the country, what about farc (i read
an article not long ago saying that some farc leaders
were studying the swedish economy, could there be a
neo-leninism that is more like sandinista style
socialism than cuban)?, i have a friend who told me
the other day he's going to visit the armed wing of
the communist party in the philippines, what about the
leninist character some folks have suggested the
events in argentina are taking?, what about all over
the third world where ppl are starting to accept
neo-liberalism for what it is (all of the movements in
these countries cannot be expected to take shape as
the zapatista revolution has), the ezln is an amazing
and inspirational model but it seems me to only be
applicable to indigenous cultures and has not as of
yet achieved complete revolution (perhaps a
problematic term is revolution ever 'complete'?)...

louis says a lot of total garbage but i don't think
anyone engaged with some valuable points that he
offered, to me anarchism and autonomism are movements
that have said to hell with the state and all of its
appartuses, at it's most vulgar this worldview leads
to communitarianism (this ideology has run rampant in
academia it's called postmodernism, further, i meet
anarchists all the time who have no conception of
class struggle and are just liberals or communitarians
calling themselves anarchists)... i'm not a
communitarian i'm an anti-capitalist revolutionary and
since there has not been a revolution that smashes
both the state and the corporations there can be no
science of revolution. ilan, commie00, tahir and a few
others on this list i feel think they have discovered
the science of revolution... i have not made this same
discovery, don't think it will be made and will
continue to organize basically as an anarchist while
being highly critical of leninism but in critical
solidarity with it...

as i have argued before on this list leninism is not
part of the same movement as anarchism and autonomism,
but some leninists's do claim to be true communists
(serious about ridding us of the state, work, money,
etc.), and regardless of historical failures i think
we should let them keep failing while we attempt to
build different kinds of structures and movements
which we believe will not lead to a bureacratic
dictatorship but a total reinvention of life where
play will replace work, democracy replace hierarchy,
essentially 'the plane' will fly by committee (sorry
greg but have to disagree) and not be led by some
faceless bureacrat/bureaucracy or charasmatic
leadership.
in struggle,
-Sean




===="Any art that does make us yawn, you can throw away immediately. Don't bother with explanations. The hook! P.D.Q.! The hook for any artist who bores his audience, no matter how much trouble he may have taken, no matter how much time he may have spent studying."
  -Jean Dubuffet-

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