Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:00:10 -0600 (CST)
From: "Harry M. Cleaver" <hmcleave-AT-eco.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: AUT: So long for now


On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Louis Proyect wrote:

> I am unsubbing because there is just not enough of a challenge here and I
> am tired of listening to whining about how I am crashing your party.
> Although I am leaving, I might be back like Arnold Schwarzenegger in "The
> Terminator".

Not another sequel, please. Something else, like a nice film review maybe.

>
> My suggestion to one and all is to begin to learn how to analyze concrete
> class relations. This is what Marx did in Capital. For people who pay so
> much lip-service to Marx, there has been absolutely no engagement with how
> the Cuban people changed society beginning in the early 1960s. It is one
> thing to deny that this happened, it is another to run away from the
> responsibility of supplying data to back up your conclusions.

Louis really resents people who don't have his agenda and who won't play
on his terrain. Too bad... but Cuba doesn't seem to be on too many
people's agenda these days. Perhaps another day.

>
> I understand how people like "commie00" do this, since I presume he is some
> kind of working stiff with no access to a research library. It is another
> for an economics professor like Harry Cleaver to spend several days in
> debate on Cuba without giving even the slightest inkling that he has read
> some of the basic literature on Cuba, from Edward Boornstein to James
> O'Connor.

Actually I did mention reading Boorstein, years ago when it was published.
And the University of Texas library probably has one of the best
collections on Cuba in the country. But then, to use it, well you gotta be
working on Cuba, which I'm not. Duh.

> If somebody came here alleging that the Zapatistas were Stalinist
> goons, Harry would presumably provide counter-evidence that they are not.

Yup, I would do that, cause I HAVE been working on the Zaps.


> But when it comes to Cuba, he has had absolutely nothing substantial to
> say. He relies on empty generalizations supported by a heterodox
> interpretation of V. 1 of Capital. This is not Marxism, it is scholasticism
> of the worst sort.

Nope. Its a theoretical response to various theoretical statements and
arguments. And Louis is right, I have not entered into the "debate" over
the situation in Cuba --because I haven't been studying it and don't
believe in arguing over things I haven't studied lately.

>
> Take care, your evil Leninist cousin

See ya round the Internet, I'm sure, cuz.

H.

>
> Louis Proyect
>
> Louis Proyect
> Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org
>
>
>
>
>      --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>

............................................................................
Snail-mail:
Harry Cleaver
Department of Economics
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, Texas 78712-1173  USA

Phone Numbers:
(hm)  (512) 442-5036
(off) (512) 475-8535
Fax:(512) 471-3510

E-mail:
hmcleave-AT-eco.utexas.edu
PGP Public Key: http://certserver.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=hmcleave

Cleaver homepage:
http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/index2.html

Chiapas95 homepage:
http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/chiapas95.html

Accion Zapatista homepage:
http://www.utexas.edu/students/nave/
............................................................................



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