Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:28:00 -0800 (PST)
From: asc <satellitecrash-AT-yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AUT: is leninism dead? was: Flooding


"They don't burn the books they just remove 'em"
 -Rage Against the Machine-

-AT-ndy i think i am taking seriously what i don't think
to many ppl on this list do is that both the u.s. and
the soviet union were empires, both systems were
pretty much equally fucked, there wasn't one evil
empire; what are the consequences of this realization
for anarchist and marxist theory? 

i think there is some truth in what louis was saying
about harald believing the lies of the cuban mafia
thinktanks in miami... we need to take seriously that
both systems have little of what we want, therefore we
must consider what different manifestations these
regimes have taken, to not do so is irresponsible of
us.
in struggle,
-Sean
 
--- "-AT-ndy" <andy-AT-xchange.anarki.net> wrote:
> asc wrote:
> 
> > i was responding to the idea that leninism is dead
> not whether bureaucratic socialist states ever
> reached communism... in addition i've been toying
> with the idea that perhaps we learn more from these
> countries experiences as state capitalist or
> bureaucratic
> > socialist (the term i prefer) than if they had
> simply been client regimes of the u.s., isn't this
> the point if one understands communism as the social
> movement that leads to a stateless classless
> society?
> 
> Mikls Haraszti, A Worker In A Worker's State,
> Pelican Books, 1977:
> 
> "The manuscript... was seized in Budapest and its
> young marxist author, a promising Hugarian poet, was
> brought to trial for writing it. The People's Court
> found that the manuscript was 'liable to provoke
> hatred of the state'. Haraszti himself was fined and
> given a
> suspended sentence for 'grave incitement'.
> 
> ...The different voices of personal experience,
> objective analysis and reported speech are woven
> together to create a convincing, gripping account,
> while the quality of the writing makes this sober
> and painful book enthralling to read."
> 
> 
> 
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