From: "Greg Schofield" <g_schofield-AT-dingoblue.net.au>
Subject: Re: AUT: Pragmatism, Purism & the Peso
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:12:09 +0800


Paul, I find your reply a bit distressing for a number of reasons.

First you seem to have a knee jerk reaction to anyone referring to Lenin, what is the actual problem here, is Leninism all and everything associated with Lenin? Or is it something a little more specific than this? Is there anything in my poist or previous posts which is "Leninist", a childish fixation with labeling seems all too common on this list, and you will have to forgive me Paul this seems a another case of it. no on the matter of inconsistancy I have a bone top pick with you Paul and I suggest you take it seriously.

Your previous post raised a specific and a general question, the specific question was about currency stablisization which I specifically said I knew nothing about and was unfit to answer. The general question was whether the "left" should raise practcial solutions, like currency stabilisation or move to ultra-leftist demands for a new cashless society.

Paul I beleive this is a fair summing up of your post, is it not?

So I answer the general question in a general way, as an example I take one of the few documents that bears a one to one relationship to a revolutionary upsurge (Lenin's April Thesis - like it or not it is a simple fact and even Bourgeois historians agree).

Using the example I point out that all the actual demands are modest and practical. I had hoped that this simple approach would ground the debate in a less abstract debate about the interconnections between raising demands and class self-activity. But what do I find instead?

Paul for some reason only known to yourself you draw all soughts of distinctions between the currency system of Argentina and Russia 1917. Are you serious - did you read my post or just get annoyed at a reference to the devil and immediately leap into exorcism mode?

Then you practically call me a hypocrite for having the teremity of referring to something from Lenin while maintaining I do not wish to be labeled a Leninist elsewhere - what can I say Paul, I mean what do you expect - is there a ritual I can perform perhaps. What nonsense.

Then Paul you spend the rest of the post pointing out the differences between Russia 1917 and Argentina 2002 - Duh!!!!

Paul I tried to respond to you in a comradely manner and strictly around the issues you introduced, but you have responded to this in an outlandish manner. I must admit I find myself confused, I really am starting to believe that there is something pathologically askew on this list.

Now I suggest this is all good faith Paul. We all from time to time overreact to things thought to be in posts, and sometimes things are debated which are completely tangential to anything raised. I am hoping this is such a case, that far more is being read into my posts then is actually there and that the whole thing may be solved by re-examining the original issues.

Please consider my suggestion above, and we can overlook the whole episode - otherwise I will be forced to conclude a lack of good will and something of a mental obsession are at work here.

Yours in hopreful expectation,

Greg


--- Message Received ---
From: Paul Bowman <paulbowman-AT-totalise.co.uk>
To: aut-op-sy <aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:53:47 +0000
Subject: RE: AUT: Pragmatism, Purism & the Peso

On the grounds that less is more I will limit myself to the following:

>===== Original Message From Greg Schofield <g_schofield-AT-dingoblue.net.au> 
====
>I will be jumped on for saying this, but the classic example of such an 
approach is Lenin's April Thesis. The thesis is mostly an analysis of the 
Russian condition as it appeared in 1917.

This is IMHO not got a great deal to do with the situation of the Argentinian 
peso in March 2002. For one thing the gold standard was still in force in 
Russia (and the rest of the world) so that, to the best of my knowledge (those 
who know better please correct) the Russian social crisis of 1917 was not 
related to a monetary crisis. Today we live in a post-gold standard and, since 
1973, post Bretton Woods world. Today all social crises lead to currency 
crises. I remember on the buses on the way back home from the Poll Tax riot of 
1/04/90 a guy being jubilant that our activities that day had knocked 9 points 
off the pound. BTW I find it inconsistent that you complain about being 
labelled a "Leninist" in another thread but your only response to a question 
about what is to be done now, today in Argentina in relation to the crisis, 
particularly its monetary aspect, your only response is Lenin's April Thesis. 
Let us examine what you see relevant about it:

> However, the part that always gets ignored is the immediate solutions Lenin 
puts forward - these are for the most part just sensible resolutions - 
immediate peace

Argentina is not at war (that is in the state sense of being at war against 
another external enemy - class war for sure)

> redistribution of land to increase food production

AFAICS the crisis in Argentina is a crisis not amongst the peasantry, but 
rather the urban proletariat. Unless a Khmer Rouge solution of reconverting 
the proletariat into peasantry is being proposed (and I don't think anybody 
is) this does not apply. Food exists, the problem is the Argentinian working 
class doesn't have the money to buy it.

> nationalisation of the banks

And how does this help?

I'm sorry I can't see how any of the above applies, by all means enlighten me.

I do intend to throw in some ideas of my own on this topic (rather than just 
raise the questions and attack other people's answers which is a ****'s trick) 
but I was too knackered last night and I've run out time just now - manana...



Greg Schofield
Perth Australia
g_schofield-AT-dingoblue.net.au
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________

Use LesTecML Mailer (http://www.lestec.com.au/)
* Powerful filters.
* Create you own headers.
* Have email types launch scripts.
* Use emails to automat your work.
* Add comments on receive.
* Use scripts to extract and check emails.
* Use MAID to create taylor-made solutions.
* LesTecML Mailer is fully controlled by REXX.
* A REXX interpreter is freely available.
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________





     --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---