From: "Greg Schofield" <g_schofield-AT-dingoblue.net.au>
Subject: Re: AUT: Historical as against ideological analysis
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:24:06 +0800


Nate how true.

I mean this for as far as I am concerned in a short paragraph you have hit the nail on the head.

Lets make a few assumptions.
1) Not only are the problems not resolvable ideological, they are not ideological problems in the first place.
2) Within each ideological "set" there are class friends and class enemies.
3) Continual ideological disputation (disputes which hieghten differences) serves only the class enemies.
4) Practical activity does not assume ideological conformance, and because of this promotes working unities of class friends.

These four points should only be taken as general indicators and are made more for the sake of argument then attempting to present some finalisied thesis. But if we do assume them then we are lead fairly directly to your paragraph below.

5) What type of activities work, bearing in mind we start this discussion on an internet list (it must make this as its reference point otherwise it ceases to be practical).

Nate I would be vitally interested, though there seems no great point being made here to whether you find this logic accptable and in keeping with your own response - if it is I have some further suggestions to offer and tease out the logic of the above a little further.

Greg

--- Message Received ---
From: Nate Holdren <nateholdren-AT-hotmail.com>
To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:15:11 -0500
Subject: Re: AUT: Historical as against ideological analysis

hi Greg-
I wonder how this call for unity could play out. If it's true that a lot of 
disagreements aren't resolvable at the ideological level but only at the 
historical and practical then it's probably most productive to pick a 
situation or situations and talk about that?
nate

>From: Greg Schofield <g_schofield-AT-dingoblue.net.au>
>Reply-To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>Subject: AUT: Historical as against ideological analysis
>Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:19:53 +0800
>
>After haviong some pointless debate in another thread I would like to draw 
>attention to a simple and unedifying habit of the left.
>
>Using ideological labels and arguing against the label.
>
>Not good comrades, but all too common.
>
>Many of on this list make free use of the label "leninist" as shorthand for 
>a laftiosm which is felt to lead to authoritarian statist solutions which 
>crush the human spirit. There is nothing wroing with this as far as it 
>goes, but how far does it go?
>
>It may be prefectly legitimate and useful to use this to classify a whole 
>set of ideas, a number of related faults in theory and particular political 
>stances. I have no problem with this at all. On the otherhand it can be 
>used as an empty label, where all things that are disliked, or associated 
>with what is disliked can be conveniently dumped - I have real problems 
>with this.
>
>Arguing against labels follows this latter pattern, in a sense it is a 
>number of associations which are being argued against, some no doubt are 
>closely historically linked, but may not actual be closely related (in 
>terms of cause and effect), likeswise the label can be so generalisied that 
>it is not specific at all - the "Leninist" against which so much is being 
>argued becomes a fiction, something so bodey-man-like it can fit anyone and 
>no-one.
>
>My impression is a little of the latter is happening and that it is a 
>common trap of reducing important questions to all become ideological ones. 
>Against this I would place a historical analysis, looking at all the same 
>things (statists, command economies, oppression, repression, failure, 
>horror and all the rest) but seeking answers at a different level of 
>analysis.
>
>Elsewhere in this list I attempted to specifiy this as a general tendency 
>within the 20th century for the petit bourgeoisie to abandon pribvate 
>property and become managers and bureracrats. I would point out that at 
>various points this has been a radical movement (not necessarily a good 
>one) and could explain striking similarities to aspects of fascism (for 
>instance), Sovietism and modern corporations.
>
>In otherwords, the apparent richness of ideological differences is 
>underpinned by a significant historical shift in class forces. To this 
>degree that some "leninists", "anarchist", "libitarian", "stalinist", 
>"Maoist", "Trotskist", etc etc etc ad infinitum, tendencies and ideological 
>manifestations reflect this radical petit bourgeois. Hence "post-modernism" 
>etcs may also find their place alongside "national socialism" and much else 
>beside.
>
>From this standpoint while agreat deal of hay can be made of ideological 
>positions, the truth may be that such ideologies refelect many different 
>things besides radical middle class aspirations. That is that much might 
>not be resolvable at the ideological level at all.
>
>If we were to shift focus based on such a perspective, much that we take 
>that separates us at ther moment may well dissolve itself into merely 
>differing traditions of thought and perhaps not much more. On the 
>otherhand, others who appear to be our co-thinkers and allies may well in 
>class terms be no such thing. I am not suggesting a witch-hunt but rather 
>the need for re-alignment and a lot of good will and honest sorting-out of 
>differences.
>
>I will however, go another step with reference to another thread. The class 
>alliegances might not all be that difficult to determine, after all at such 
>a time of near completre dissarray of the left, only two logical positions 
>seem pereceptable. Those who whish to mainatain the often false 
>distinctions which are symprtoms of the left's decline have an interest in 
>that decline and by extension an interest in maintaining the social 
>condition where by the middle class under prevailing forces gains mor and 
>more of a bureacratic foothold within society (not withstanding their 
>avowed disapproaval). Against this, as again reflecting the class forces as 
>they are now are all those who want to move past the impasse, destroy 
>sectarianism, and explore the areas of porudctive unity despite the dead 
>hand of traditional alliegances.
>
>Of this second impulse the working class, largely defeated, has a definite 
>interest in a political regroupment, not despite the classes disinterest in 
>the left but rather because this disinterest is the heart of the problem.
>
>Sometimes in history the way the cards fall, the class position of people 
>is as clear as glass. The test is simple and straightforward, the 
>objectives pregiven and obvious.
>
>I ask comrades to give serious thought to the issues raised here, the idea 
>is not difficult, the proof easily rendered from personal experience. Even 
>a small list such as this, which is blessed with diversity just as much as 
>it is cursed by it, provides grounds for begining the shift of emphaisis 
>towards something more productive.
>
>However, such a shift must begin with self-criticism, we must individually 
>and collectively become conscious of those assumptions and practices which 
>contribute to the problem (no one escapes this) and then become determined 
>to rectify them.
>
>This list would be a fine place to begin because unlike most others which 
>have settled into like minded comforts, this list is very diverse (partly 
>reflecting that it is relatively new) and the lack of common assumptions 
>may well be a great asset if we collectively address the problem in a 
>serious manner.
>

Greg Schofield
Perth Australia
g_schofield-AT-dingoblue.net.au
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