Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:26:12 +1100
From: "-AT-ndy" <andy-AT-xchange.anarki.net>
Subject: Re: AUT: is leninism dead? was: Flooding


Hi Sean.

asc wrote:

> "They don't burn the books they just remove 'em"
>  -Rage Against the Machine-

"Don't hate the media / become the media"
- Jello Biafra -

> -AT-ndy i think i am taking seriously what i don't think to many ppl on
> this list do is that both the u.s. and the soviet union were empires,
> both systems were pretty much equally fucked, there wasn't one evil
> empire; what are the consequences of this realization for anarchist
> and marxist theory?

I'm not sure I understand your question Sean. As far as I can tell, most
people on this list probably agree that the Soviet (sic) empire *was* -
and the US empire *continues* to be - 'fucked'. I also think that this
belief probably plays a major role in determining how most people think,
both in terms of anarchist and Marxist theory and a lot more besides. Or
are you making some kind of argument re the emergence of some kind of
'unified spectacle'?!?

Anyway, I admit I wasn't exactly clear about this, but my reason for
citing Haraszti's book is because I believe it provides an interesting
perspective on the nature of so-called "workers' states", and accounts
of the actual experiences of (other) workers is important in terms of
understanding what makes (class) society tick. (Maybe I also had in mind
some reference you made to 'subjectivities'...?)

> i think there is some truth in what louis was saying about harald
> believing the lies of the cuban mafia thinktanks in miami...

I think Harald's in the best position to answer this. However -
notwithstanding the fact that I'm not sure precisely what Louis said or
what "lies" are being referred to - I'd add that the accusation that
criticisms of the Castro regime originate in "Cuban Mafia think-tanks"
is neither new nor to be taken all that seriously. Similar accusations
were leveled at anarchists who criticised the Bolshevik regime during
the Russian Civil War, the 'Popular Front' government during the Spanish
Civil War and Stalinists routinely denounced Marxist critics of the
Soviet Union as 'Trotskyite counter-revolutionaries' working in the
interests of global capitalism.

A great deal more could be said re anarchism and Cuba, but I believe
Frank Fernandez says it a lot better than I ever could:

http://www.illegalvoices.org/apoc/books/cuban/front.html

> we need to take seriously that both systems have little of what we
> want, therefore we must consider what different manifestations these
> regimes have taken, to not do so is irresponsible of us.

I agree.

-AT-ndy.



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