Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:53:40 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Scott=20Hamilton?= <s_h_hamilton-AT-yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AUT: Re: Trotsky, Cohn-Bendit



Nate, you say you want to criticise 'Trotsky and
Trotskyist' organisations over the role they played
after 9/11, but you say somewhere else that you don't
have a clear idea of what the theory of imperialism
is. Isn't there a problem here? 

I would be interested to know the names of the
organisations you want to criticise. In all
likelihood, one of them is the ISO, a former member of
the International Socialist Tendency which takes Tony
Cliff as its leading theoretician.  After the Second
World War, Cliff revised all of the key doctrines of
the 4th International Trotsky founded. If you want to
understand the politics of the IST you would be better
off reading *Kautsky's* rather than Trotsky's
'Terorrism and Communism' (Trotsky was replying to
Kautsky). You might even want to try some of the
thinkers who are popular on this list - Castoriadis,
for instance, who used to get published in Cliff's
Socialist Review - before you try Trotsky. 

Cohn-Bendit is an interesting source for you to use
against Trotsky, since he has gone on to become a
full-blooded bourgeois politician. If Trotsky's words
in 1921 are enough to convict Trotskyists in 2001, why
are Cohn-Bendit's writings thirty years ago to be
trusted? 

Cheers
Scott






 --- cwright <cwright-AT-21stcentury.net> wrote: > Hey
Nate,
> 
> Communism and Terrorism and his Military Writings
> are great sources for
> really bad stuff.  But there is a lot that is in
> bits and pieces all over
> the place.  Get the Kronstadt book put out by
> Pathfinder Press for some
> choice materials and look at the suppression of the
> Workers' Opposition in
> the 1921 Congress.  Victor Serge's biography has
> some stuff worth looking at
> at that time as well.  Also try Voline's book on the
> Russina Revolution.
> 
> Maurice Brinton's book on the Bolsheviks and Workers
> Control is a good
> source for nasty quotes from Trotsky and especially
> Lenin.
> 
> His writings on literature and art are in two main
> collections, his book
> Literature and Revolution and a collection piece
> call Trotsky on Art and
> Literature and Problems of Everday Life has some
> stuff.  Some of it is good.
> Trotsky is more given to appreciating contemporary
> art than say Lenin, but
> it all pales in comparison to the SI.  But it is not
> his worst stuff and he
> makes sensible arguments against 'proletarian
> culture' nonsense.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nate Holdren" <nateholdren-AT-hotmail.com>
> To: <aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:16 PM
> Subject: AUT: Trotsky, Cohn-Bendit
> 
> 
> > Greetings listmates-
> > I'm reading Cohn-Bendit's _Obsolete Communism_
> (yes I know about his later
> > carreer, no diatribes please).
> > He quotes Trotsky saying all these horrible
> things, it's really great, but
> > he doesn't cite a source or anything, other than
> remarks Trotsky made to
> > some party congress (#9 I think) and that he wrote
> some of this in
> > DIctatorship vs Democracy, which I can't find.
> >
> > Leon says things like "the workers must not be
> allowed to roam all over
> > Russia. They must be sent where they are needed,
> called up and directed
> like
> > soldiers. Labour must be directed most intensely
> during the transition of
> > capitalism to socialism" and "was it true that
> compulsory labour was
> always
> > unproductive?" and "coercion, regimentation, and
> militarization of labour
> > were no mere emergency measures ... the workers'
> State normally had the
> > right to coerce any citizen to perform any work at
> any place of its
> > choosing."
> > And on the Workers' Opposition, Trotsky says "We
> must bear in mind the
> > historical mission of our Party ... to maintain
> its dictatorship without
> > stopping for these vacillations, nor even the
> momentary falterings of the
> > working class."
> >
> > Any one know where I could chase up sources for
> these or similar remarks
> by
> > Trotsky, particularly relating to the
> militarization of labor?
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, I heard someplace that Trotsky wrote on
> literature? What's that
> like?
> > Did he write anything on music anywhere?
> >
> > The reason I ask is that I'm thinking of putting
> together a slanderous
> > character assassination pamphlet employing some
> Situationist stuff against
> > Trotsky and Trokskyist organizations, centering
> mainly around how here in
> > Chicago they played a big role in derailing the
> post 9/11 antiwar movement
> > and that the events they hold are almost
> invariably boring dreary affairs
> > with no rhythm or music (other than maybe a
> martial or assembly line style
> > march beat) and little smiling beyond sneers and
> smug grins. The second is
> > linked to the first above, in that the killed the
> movement in part because
> > they're so dull and predictable and depressing. I
> want to do something I
> > could take out of my pocket and handover as a
> self-satisfied explanation
> for
> > why I don't want to buy their stupid papers or
> come to their meetings.
> >
> > Any input, much appreciated.
> >
> > Nate
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.
> Try MSN!
> >
>
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp
> >
> >
> >
> >      --- from list
> aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
>      --- from list
> aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- 

===="Revolution is not like cricket, not even one day cricket"

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