Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:44:52 +1100 (EST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Richard=20Collins?= <richard_collins1-AT-yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: AUT: Trotsky--cohn-bendit


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 Harald Beyer-Arnesen <haraldba-AT-online.no> wrote: 
When all comes to all the material basis for apologies for
Leninism is not politics, but that everyone knows some
genuinely nice people who are members or followers of
such groups. The problem being that this was always so.
But then somehow, and each time, everything turned out
so differently. 

This is precisely the point. I always reckon the best way to shift someone's ideas is to hone in the contradictions of their ideas. If we keep saying "Yeah but look at the attrocities the Bolsheviks committed, or look at how things ended up" they keep saying "Yeah, that was because of the material situation" and we get nowhere.
What I think we should say is OK you look to Lenin for all the right reasons, but this strategy will lead to the same end REGARDLESS of the circumstances.
My problem is I can't articulate this argument strongly enough, what I am looking for is material that makes this argument in a modern context.
Cheers,
Richard



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HTML VERSION:

 Harald Beyer-Arnesen <haraldba-AT-online.no> wrote:

When all comes to all the material basis for apologies for
Leninism is not politics, but that everyone knows some
genuinely nice people who are members or followers of
such groups. The problem being that this was always so.
But then somehow, and each time, everything turned out
so differently.

This is precisely the point. I always reckon the best way to shift someone's ideas is to hone in the contradictions of their ideas. If we keep saying "Yeah but look at the attrocities the Bolsheviks committed, or look at how things ended up" they keep saying "Yeah, that was because of the material situation" and we get nowhere.

What I think we should say is OK you look to Lenin for all the right reasons, but this strategy will lead to the same end REGARDLESS of the circumstances.

My problem is I can't articulate this argument strongly enough, what I am looking for is material that makes this argument in a modern context.

Cheers,

Richard