Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 07:52:44 -0500
Subject: Re: AUT: anti-anti-anti-ANSWER
From: Jim Fleming <jim-AT-autonomedia.org>


On A.N.S.W.E.R.:  
http://slash.autonomedia.org/article.pl?sid=01/12/03/1946241&mode=nested
best, jim

On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 12:04 AM, topp8564-AT-mail.usyd.edu.au  
wrote:

>
> I think your take on capitalist party involvement in the movement is  
> very
> naive. You say that these guys don't have a well considered ideology.  
> I don't
> believe this for a minute, and in the unlikely event that they really  
> don't
> have a well considered - and extremely cynical - ideology, my response  
> would be
> that people are perfectly capable of doing horrible things in the  
> absence of
> ideological guidance. Horrible things such as suddenly supporting  
> reformist
> Liberals en masse, which I am certain will be the pre-election switch  
> here in
> Australia if the war goes awry. Stupidity is no excuse, and in the  
> hands of
> cunning political agents, it is a laughable cover.
>
> As for ANSWER, why do you think it is so important that the US is  
> represented
> in international peace movement conferences? Who cares? What makes you  
> think
> such conferences have any meaning at all? And whose fault is that  
> these guys
> are better organised than we are, if that is the case? Who do you  
> think you
> will mobilise by digging up dirt on these folks?
>
> Obsessing over tiny sects makes you into a tiny sect. Or a police  
> force. But
> this is it from me. I don't feel like obsessing over people who obsess  
> over
> tiny sects.
>
> Thiago
>
>
> On 15/3/03 3:54 PM, "theredpill-AT-xms.ms" <theredpill-AT-xms.ms> wrote:
>
>>> I would recommend against undertaking such a project. Fighting ANSWER
>>> is like  having a turf war with Spart paper sellers: fight little
>>> people you and you  will become a little person.
>>
>> I think ANSWER is pretty big and influencial at least on the east cost
>> in the U.S. (a colleague of mine recently sent me an email in which
>> ANSWER was 'the' representation of the U.S. anti-war movement at an
>> international meeting of anti-war groups).. actually from what i've
>> heard they have a significant presence on the west coast as well... i
>> have no problem collaborating with social democrats or even more
>> moderate liberals, i just don't think stalinists within the movement  
>> can
>> do a whole lot of good for the movement...
>>>
>>> I would be far more worried about the very large number of wankers  
>>> who
>>> cozy up  to the Democratic party or, over here, to the Labour and
>>> Liberal parties, all  the reformist trash that goes surfing on the
>>> wave of popular anger at the war.  After all, ANSWER is about sixty
>>> people, whereas Win Without War is associated  with rather more
>>> powerful elements. Over here we are creating the conditions  for the
>>> Liberal party to shoot up the polls should there be a leadership  
>>> spill
>>>  against Howard; plenty of Liberals are very aware of this and want  
>>> to
>>> exploit  the popular sentiment for their own nefarious ends. It would
>>> be
>>> suicidal, in my  opinion, to worry about the presence of Maoists in
>>> the movement when these far  more powerful guys are maneuvering. It's
>>> like jumping in a pond with sharks and  carp and worrying about the
>>> carp.
>>>
>>>
>> is it true that ANSWER is sixty people? I give them a little more  
>> credit
>> than that, and the scary thing is that they call themselves a  
>> coalition
>> (unlike iac and wwp) so insofar as they've been able to presumably  
>> dupe
>> other groups (although i assume some of their collaborators are hidden
>> stalinists as well) into joining their organizing efforts they pose a
>> growing and significant problem for the movement simply by way of  
>> folks
>> with a lot of faulty ideas existing at a privileged position in the
>> anti-war movement...
>>
>> the thing i don't mind about folks who cozy up to the democratic party
>> as you describe them, is that i don't think a lot of these people have
>> considered ideology seriously and i don't think they necessarily care  
>> if
>> someone is an anti-authoritarian anti-capitalist as long as they can
>> come together and work with anti-capitalists on an issue or a few  
>> issues
>> (providing of course that the anti-capitalists don't (at mass
>> mobilizations) dare i say destroy property such as smashing in  
>> starbucks
>> windows, etc...), b/c this is how these ppl see the world in terms of
>> issues, and not systems of rule, theories of social organization,  
>> class
>> struggles, etc (the liberal/social democratic intelligensia is not  
>> this
>> unaware or unable to see the world differently (you see this when  
>> folks
>> like nader try to downplay anarchist involvement in anti-neoliberal
>> demonstrations), but i'm describing more the folks on the ground: i
>> guess what i'm saying here is influenced a lot by deleuze an  
>> guattari's
>> idea that there is not now nor have there ever been ideologies (this  
>> is
>> the scary thing about ANSWER, that they have an ideology and it's  
>> really
>> really unsophisticated and it's not going to be something that will  
>> lead
>> us anywhere that's healthy, v. United for Peace or Peace Action and
>> other mainstream groups who organize anti-war actions and demos), this
>> is true for a lot of ppl but i would not take this idea as broadly as  
>> d
>> and g suggest)...so anyways i see much more potential for allegiance  
>> of
>> anti-capitalists with liberals and social democrats as opposed to the
>> most reactionary of Marxist-Leninist groups (maybe the Leninist  
>> scholars
>> on the list can tell me if there is anything Leninist about ANSWER, i
>> mean as far as i can tell they are (or at least WWP, as a friend of  
>> mine
>> pointed out to me today if i do write something for publication on  
>> this
>> issue i need to make the link between wwp/iac/answer a bit better) one
>> of the only groups one can call wholeheartedly
>> stalinist without to much disagreement). But anyway, i guess you are  
>> not
>> suggesting that we ally with ANSWER at all, but just kind of tell them
>> to buzz off... and i think the problem with this is that they are not  
>> going
>> to just go away and i think the anti-authoritarian left needs to  
>> engage
>> with this 'red menace'within the movement.
>> love and rage,
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
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