From: miked-AT-riseup.net
Date: Wed,  5 Mar 2003 22:12:54 -0800
Subject: Re: AUT: Re: Relationship between Immigration and capitalism


Quoting "M.Weigand" <mweigand2-AT-mindspring.com>:

For starters I really think you should get off this list MW.  This attitude has 
no relation to my politics or the politics of the list and I hope at the least 
you'll keep your racist, classist garbage to yourself next time.
1) yes you understand correctly I WANT TO ABOLISH THE CONCEPT OF BORDERS 
BETWEEN NATIONS and not only that (scandal...) I want to abolish the states 
that enforce them as well.



> While I certainly understand the desperation that drives illegal immigration
> (the same desperation that drove most of our ancestors), starting life
> illegally in a new country leads to a host of personal and social problems.
> It makes economic exploitation by employers easier, because illegal workers
> can always be threatened with deportation.

 It robs life of its quality and
> provides poor role models for the children of immigrants. It enables
> blackmail, extortion schemes, black market economies, etc. And yes, open
> borders make it easier for terrorists to enter the U.S. as well.


This simply shows that you have absolutely no real idea what you're talking 
about.  Of course it causes problems, that's all the more reason to get rid of 
distinctions between legal and illegal immigrants.  The question isn't whether 
being an illegal immigrant is a great choice.  Being an illegal immigrant (and 
i work with them everyday in my work) is often not a choice at all but a 
situation that people are driven into by terrible conditions around the world 
(created by capitalist powers) and racist, classist immigration laws (also 
created by capitalist powers).  


> Finally, what reasonable argument can be made that non-citizens deserve the
> same rights and privileges as the citizens living in any given country?

This statement takes as its starting point a belief in states and the western 
capitalist conception of citizen and country.  A conception and belief I do not 
share with you.

 For
> example, suppose I moved to a tribal culture, not knowing the language,
> without any relevant job skills or education, without any knowledge of the
> culture and its traditions, religion, family structure, political or
> economic system. Should I immediately be given the same rights and
> privileges as the indigenous people living there, or should there be a
> learning process involved before privileges are awarded?

No you would probably conquer and enslave them and force them to accomodate to 
you just as everyone else who has upheld the legitimacy of the state has done 
to indigenous culture in the past.

worst regards,
mike d


> 





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