From: "odessa steps" <italia-AT-gryphon33.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: AUT: AGAINST CONSERVATISM--FOR COMMUNISM
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:22:45 +0100


Can I applaud Thiago's rebuttal - I too am shocked and appalled at the level
of debate on this list where bigoted, unscientific opinion is accepted as
fact and people who cannot or will not put forward reasoned and evidenced
argument but prefer to explode bombs of prejudice and ignorance in our midst
just so they can see who survives and who is lying in intellectual body
parts can get away with it.

People are entitled to opinion but when it is clearly unfounded prejudice -
and much of this 'debate' on homosexuality clearly is - it degrades the
whole concept of autonomism.  Clearly there are as many right-wing
libertarian nutzos on this list as there are consciously free and
enlightened autonomists.
----- Original Message -----
From: <topp8564-AT-mail.usyd.edu.au>
To: "Aut-Op-Sy" <aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: AUT: AGAINST CONSERVATISM--FOR COMMUNISM


> On 4/4/2003 4:19 PM, "Ilan Shalif" <gshalif-AT-netvision.net.il> wrote:
>
> > Homosexuality and other deviations in the sexual domain
> > are a deviation that is of entirely different domain.
> >
> > It is of the same processes of "mental imprinting" like
> > these that cause the new born duckling to follow any thing
> > of the correct size and speed encountered in few hours
> > after it get out of the eeg.
> >
> > The same process (though a bit milder) that cause people to
> > look for intimate partners who resemble the parent of the
> > opposite sex.
> >
> > Even the reactionary establishment of mental health re-labled
> > the homosexuality as personality disturbance and no more
> > as illness.
>
>
> *GASP*
>
> You cannot be serious - homosexuality isn't listed as a 'disturbance' even
in
> the DSM, which IS orthodoxy. None of the anthropologists and psychologists
> that I know  believes this mental imprinting story - the hard core
positivist
> explanation these days is that homosexuality, at last male homosexuality,
is
> due to brain physiology. The case for that is looking stronger and
stronger
> every day, though I used to be highly sceptical of it. The other theory,
that
> certain events in your childhood would make you into a queen has been
> essentially booted out of the psychology establishment, or at least the
> reputable part of it. I guess some people who have an axe to grind push
the
> idea that child abuse or overbearing mothers makes you gay, though these
ideas
> have either not been tested credibly - what's an overbearing mother? - or
have
> been statistically mauled.
>
> I am surprised to hear these terms "dysfunction" and "disturbance" in this
> context, specially in the present forum. Homosexuality is about as
> dysfunctional as blond hair and light skin, and as disturbed as liking
peaches
> rather than plums.
>
> At any rate, I'd like to know what this has to do with autonomism.
>
> Thiago
>
>
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