Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:14:13 +1000
From: Steve Wright <pmargin-AT-optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: AUT: Fwd: [VT_THEORY] on empire and negri


It's immodest of me, I know, but the chapter of Storming Heaven that most
relevant to this discussion is online at http://www.commoner.org.uk/wright05.pdf

As for Martin's point, I think there is a difference between a form of class
organisation that seeks to respond to 'he dominant forms of production' and one
that apes the latter. In Lenin's time, I think that contrast was most stark in
the differences between the IWW and the Bolsheviks ...

Steve

Martin Hardie wrote:

> isn't this the point implicit in Hardt's thesis?
> different models of organisation are consonant with the dominant forms of
> production????
>
> On Thursday 26 August 2004 09:29, benjamin rosenzweig wrote:
> > So is the point here that if Hardt was around in Lenin's time he would have
> > supported the Bolshevik party as the model of organisation, consonant with
> > the dominant forms of production?
> >
> >
> > stevphen shukaitis <stevphen-AT-greenpeppermagazine.org> wrote:
> > i was talking to hardt this weekend after the life after capitalism
> > conference - and he was making this argument that lenin, if alive, would
> > support the model of non-hierarchal networked models for organizing on the
> > basis that the organization of resistance should be consonsant with the
> > means of production (ie the whole thing about the rise of imaterial labor
> > and such). my initial response to this was a big "so what? it doesn't
> > really matter to me whether lenin says" - but after dropping the issue of
> > lenin, it seemed more intriguing, the relation between organization of
> > work relations and resistance to them needing to have some degree of
> > consonance. now such could be taking to ridiculous levels (ie that
> > resistance to feudalism should have taken the form of the leadership of
> > counter-feudal lords, or that resistance to slavery would be best
> > accomplished through alternatuve forms of slavery, etc . . .), but it did
> > strike me as being somewhat interesting - so I wanted to throw that out
> > there.
> >
> > cheers.
> > stevphen
> >
> > > Nate Holdren wrote:
> > >>Virno talks about the multitude as an ambivalent form, just like the
> > >>proletariat, and talks about 'postmodern fascism' as being a form the
> > >>multitude can take in addition to the radical forms Negri identifies.
> > >>I know Virno and Agamben and others worked on a journal called Luogo
> > >>Comune (sp?) dedicated, among other things, to exploring postmodern
> > >>fascism. Bits of the journal are around the net in Spanish, probably
> > >>in Italian as well. I think points about fascism can be overstated but
> > >>I think the idea might be helpful for understanding the religious
> > >>right and fascists in our country, and maybe the Lega Nord in Italy
> > >>etc.
> > >>
> > >>On thing that's often not clear to me is how the term multitude
> > >>applies (and whether Negri and Virno have different uses of the term)
> > >>- whether it means 'class in itself' or 'class for itself'. Sometimes
> > >>one, sometimes the other I think. The new Negri/Hardt is clearer on
> > >>some of this, but not conclusively to my mind.
> > >>
> > >>best,
> > >>Nate
> > >
> > > This rendering of 'the multitude' seems closer to that of Balibar, who
> > > in _Masses, Classes, Ideas_, _Spinoza and Politics_ and a couple of
> > > other places tries to rethink Marx's use of 'the proletariat' as a
> > > 'class for itself' along the lines of Spinoza's concept of the multitude
> > > as he understands it. In Balibar there doesn't seem to be a multitude
> > > in itself, only a potentiality existing in forms of subjectivity
> > > inherent to the diverse practices of domination in class societies.
> > > Maybe the real issue is a shift in Negri's work on the multitude post
> > > _The Savage Anomaly_ or even _Insurgencies_? Certainly Balibar, Montag,
> > > Macherey et al seem to have been much more sympathetic to the 1980s and
> > > 1990s material than to _Empire_. See, for example, Montag's very
> > > appreciative comments on Negri in _Bodies, Masses, Power_ and his review
> > > article on _Insurgencies_ in HM a few years ago. There are also
> > > discussions of what seems similar to 'postmodern fascism' as you
> > > describe it in the books of Balibar and Mike Hill that appeared this
> > > year (i.e., _We, the People of Europe?_ and _After Whiteness_
> > > respectively). Thanks for posting the link to the Virno book, I will
> > > certainly read it when I find time, as what you have said here of it
> > > sounds very promising.
> > >
> > > I hope to publish an interview with Warren Montag (which has already
> > > appeared in Greek) in the next few months (in the next issue of
> > > borderlands) that has some critical comments on _Empire_. We will
> > > certainly publish an interview with Mike Hill in that issue on
> > > whiteness. Hopefully at some point in the future we will have some
> > > papers discussing _The Multitude_ if that text generates sufficient
> > > interest; certainly comparative discussions of that text with that of
> > > Virno could be interesting.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > stevphen shukaitis
> > Guest Editor, "Life Beyond the Market" issue
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