File spoon-archives/bataille.archive/bataille_1999/bataille.9908, message 135


From: "frank Callo" <godwine-AT-worldnet.att.net>
Subject: what love wants
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:22:59 -0700


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David quinn wrote

Couples need to *hate* anything that threatens to undermine their love, be
*violent* towards those who chat up their partners, and be *ignorant* of the
true nature of love, which is always 100% selfish.    As long as these three
things are in place, a long loving relationship will surely blossom and
develop. 


This is true I think for new lovers.  What usually happens however as we know is a move frrom the "lovers' society of consumption to the marreid couples' society of aquisition" (the accursed share vol II)  At some point, (biologists say about four years into the relationship) the couple has come to a place of comfort with one another which can easily turn to boredom.  Or they might remain passionatly concerned with one another but still not be exhausting themselves enough to keep their mind eyes and everything else from wandering.  Or they might have kids>  Kids kill the errotic more than anything else if we consider the requirements enumerated by Bavid above.  They come between lovers, chat up the partners(especially the mother) and are even more selfish then the lover's passion.

But kids are only the most extreem case.  Unless you are willing to kill oneanother the first time you reach loves high summit, turning the "little death" into a big one you are doomed in the following way.  The paroxysim of love is a conflagration which destroys the individuality of the partners.  This is a moment like the "big bang", a hot chaos where nothing forms.  But like the big bang, after a time, there is a "cooling" a coagulation of structure from chaos.  This is what marrige represents, as Bataille puts it:

They cannot content themselves with being the only ones to know that happiness whose limit is the universe.  But they can themselves only offer it for recognition only provided that they do not appriciate it for what it is. They know this: their happiness (or rather their sovereign totality) will be recognised in so far as it is reduced to exteriority-and to failure.

This reduction can take many forms.  Jealousy is a sign that the lovers universe is being reduced, penetrated from an outside which the lovers themselves do not even want to acknowledge, they want to be the universe.  If they go talking about their love others will take note, saying either "its not such a big thing, it happens every day" or "Hey if its so good why not cut me in a little".  This is of course the motive for the violence which David spoke of. 

Such considerations as this, things every one knows, especially if they have had some experience of love.  The stable structure of marrige as it is usually practiced protects the lovers from this knowledge, from any thing which brings it to their attention.  A veil of silence which they draw around themselves.  If the lovers want to experience to the limit of the possible they can only do this by leaving their love bulnerable to incursion from the "outside".  This of course carries the possibility of tragedy which is what lovers try to avoid.  They forget that tragedy has a lot to do with what makes love what it is.  This is another aspect of what Bataille refers to as the "deep repulsion" which underlies desire, s(see the object of desire and the totality of the real. p 111 the accursed share vol II)

What I am saying here is that if love is "true" it must continually challenge itself, raising its wager with itself to greater and greater potential loss.  If it is true it will rise from its own ashes again again, if not it will finally exhaust itself. 

HTML VERSION:

David quinn wrote
 
Couples need to *hate* anything that threatens to undermine their love, be
*violent* towards those who chat up their partners, and be *ignorant* of the
true nature of love, which is always 100% selfish.    As long as these three
things are in place, a long loving relationship will surely blossom and
develop. 
 
This is true I think for new lovers.  What usually happens however as we know is a move frrom the "lovers' society of consumption to the marreid couples' society of aquisition" (the accursed share vol II)  At some point, (biologists say about four years into the relationship) the couple has come to a place of comfort with one another which can easily turn to boredom.  Or they might remain passionatly concerned with one another but still not be exhausting themselves enough to keep their mind eyes and everything else from wandering.  Or they might have kids>  Kids kill the errotic more than anything else if we consider the requirements enumerated by Bavid above.  They come between lovers, chat up the partners(especially the mother) and are even more selfish then the lover's passion.
 
But kids are only the most extreem case.  Unless you are willing to kill oneanother the first time you reach loves high summit, turning the "little death" into a big one you are doomed in the following way.  The paroxysim of love is a conflagration which destroys the individuality of the partners.  This is a moment like the "big bang", a hot chaos where nothing forms.  But like the big bang, after a time, there is a "cooling" a coagulation of structure from chaos.  This is what marrige represents, as Bataille puts it:
 
They cannot content themselves with being the only ones to know that happiness whose limit is the universe.  But they can themselves only offer it for recognition only provided that they do not appriciate it for what it is. They know this: their happiness (or rather their sovereign totality) will be recognised in so far as it is reduced to exteriority-and to failure.
 
This reduction can take many forms.  Jealousy is a sign that the lovers universe is being reduced, penetrated from an outside which the lovers themselves do not even want to acknowledge, they want to be the universe.  If they go talking about their love others will take note, saying either "its not such a big thing, it happens every day" or "Hey if its so good why not cut me in a little".  This is of course the motive for the violence which David spoke of. 
 
Such considerations as this, things every one knows, especially if they have had some experience of love.  The stable structure of marrige as it is usually practiced protects the lovers from this knowledge, from any thing which brings it to their attention.  A veil of silence which they draw around themselves.  If the lovers want to experience to the limit of the possible they can only do this by leaving their love bulnerable to incursion from the "outside".  This of course carries the possibility of tragedy which is what lovers try to avoid.  They forget that tragedy has a lot to do with what makes love what it is.  This is another aspect of what Bataille refers to as the "deep repulsion" which underlies desire, s(see the object of desire and the totality of the real. p 111 the accursed share vol II)
 
What I am saying here is that if love is "true" it must continually challenge itself, raising its wager with itself to greater and greater potential loss.  If it is true it will rise from its own ashes again again, if not it will finally exhaust itself. 

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