Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:37:43 GMT
From: Julian Thomas <julian.thomas-AT-dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Warhol/sci-fi/turnips


Hi Mark,
Thanks for your questions. Let me try and give you my definitions!

A modernist view of the self is that it is internal. It can be 'found'. I
believe that identity is constructed socially and culturally. Having
accepted this, the self becomes subject to all the vagueries of postmod
society. Again, this is all subject to argument. If I've read Douglas
Kellner correctly, he would dispute the notion of 'post' - modernity and
suggest an out of control modernity. I would suggest that whilst late
modernity allowed for a mobile self, it still depended on a set of absolutes
and stability that a postmod society does not have. If you accept
Baudrillards notion of simulacra and the death of reality, the self is
constructed at a distance from 'the real'. It is not rooted. It is
constructed from multiple representations of the real. I could never say,
therefore, to 'know the world', as I am constructing from permanent
simulations of the real. I can only say that I 'know the world through
simulation'. To come back to your post, the world doesn't stop for me, I
don't know where it starts!

A side issue to this is how technology is afecting social interaction/. In
William Gibson's "Idoru" there is a character who exists in cyberspace as a
street fighter. In realityshe is a paraplegic. her unreal construction of
her identity is very much real. I was a ware of something similar on another
list I sub to. Someone who we knew as 'Laura' turned out to be a 60 yr old
male. W are constructing/deconstructing/ our own simulations everyday.

I think there has been a confusion between representations and a symbolic
order.As I tried to describe in my previous post, a representation is
something that has replaced the real object. Let me give you an example form
architecture. One of my favourite places is a Yorkshire/Cumbrian village
called Dent. Originally this was a farming community. Houses were built of
local stone, using techniques limited by what the local land owner was
prepared to pay. A few years ago, a housing committee was formed to make
sure that the character of the village wasn't ruined by new building. They
outlined what they thought was the style of existing building. New houses
now have to import stone, as the local quarry is exhausted, building styles
originally borne out of low cost, have become styalised traits. These houses
are now 'representations of the real'. Reality has been replaced and is
experienced once removed.

As you mentioned in your post, we have had a symbolic order through which
artists interpret the world for years,. But a sign is different from a
represenation. A sign is an artistic vocabulary. A representation is
something not real. If you accept my version of the self in an unreal world,
artists are using signs to represent and make sense of the unreal. This is
why I use the term' multple world'. I think this is different from a
subjective point of view. A subjective ppoint of view is an opinion. Because
I believe the self is constructed socially from the unreal (representations)
the concept of  'a' world is outdated. As there are more unrealities than
realities I favour the concept of multitple worlds.

Its hard to deal with this in an email, as people right books on these topics.

thanks for the discussion.
Anyone else care to chip in?

Julian


 
--------------------------------
Julian Thomas,
Cambridge,
UK.
julian.thomas-AT-dial.pipex.com
phone: 01480 458744
mobile: 07050 017982