Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:52:53 +0100
From: "Steve.Devos" <steve.devos-AT-dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Introduction


Julian Thomas said:

`I think this is because arts programmes are modernist, whilst consumers are living in a postmodernist 
society. Educational arts in the UK are elitist and treat art as objects, with the role of the school to 
inculcate into students into a dominant ideology...'

Julian I'm not sure I understand  the above statements, could you expand an why the arts programmes are 
modernist, which ones and why ?  In the mid to late 70s through the main part of the 80s the emphasis 
which you place on consumption would have been directed towards the `production of meanings'  - consumers 
producing meaning. (Still an extremely common position).  Its not clear that going back to work of 
Baudrillard from the 60s , I'm assuming you're referring to - the system of objects (1968) ? 

`Music...' 

The definition of  `educational arts in the UK as elitist'  also requires unpacking for this is in direct 
contradiction to the behavior and analysis of the british state and the dominant ruling party over the 
past 17/18 years, their perception being that arts teaching contains a hot bed of leftist lunatics - 
especially of course those more recent developments to do with film, media and related culture and 
technology areas. (recent for me starts in the 70s.... shows my age - shit). 

`divorce of signs from signifiers...'  The history of semiotics/semiology and linguage theories is 
littered with such activity without discussing the work of Lacan, Castoridis etc (completely ignoring the 
speech theorists...)  so in this context what attracts you ?  The critique of Marx ? (symbolic against 
exchange/commodity) Baudrillard  offers the theoretical concept of the symbolic order  (founded on Mauss 
etc) as higher,  purer perhaps,  destroyed by the modern/postmodern semiotic system founded on the 
commodity/exchange value system.

`Post-modernism....'   though Baudrillard is often presented as a postmodernist his ongoing critique of  
the modern social makes this case increasingly difficult to maintain. Its not as if he fits easily into 
the postmodern delight in consumption..... But then nor do half the other  postmodern theorists.

`Educational arts is not geared to allow students to create social meanings....'  Aren't elitist 
institutions solely  concerned with the production of social meanings ?  Good arts related courses would 
be what ?

enough its late 

in severe need of a drink -

steve.devos