From: "dave" <D.R.Miller-AT-newcastle.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:54:25 GMT0BST
Subject: Re: Carter's slowing down... Great sucess !!


> Date:          Sat, 10 May 97 15:25:07 +0200
> To:            baudrillard-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
> From:          Nikos Gousgounis <ngousg-AT-itel.gr>
> Subject:       Carter's slowing down... Great sucess !!
> Reply-to:      baudrillard-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU

> A million's dollars bet to the member of this list who could
> explain us what Mr Carter MEANS in his last 2 posts.

    by dying, we kill and therefore have lives we can find, though 
not by therefore

        [I do not want 'a million's dollars bet'.  I would like you 
to explain whxat you mean by 'hiding behind mythological names'] 
 
> But happily enough the lenght of these messages is getting smaller
> so there is a possibility 10% of some champion orator to recite
> these no punctuation texts with no breath at all !
>                   ( 90% that he will expire )

     {:}  apcunctuation trap
 
> I am happy that Mr Carter has been inspired recently to produce small
> posts. SMALL IS BEAUTIFUL (especially if with no punctuation )
> 
> Now
> 
> about meanings
> 
> Yes, RR  THERE ARE MEANINGS IN THE BAUDRILLARD WRITINGS (from the very 
> early till the most recent )
> 
> Yes, dear Joshua, the meaning is something overpassing the sense of an
> " auteur a la mode " and B is far from this category of authors.
> I don't think really that he is meaningless at all. You, Joshua must 
> remember how interesting dialogues on " echange symbolique et la Mort"
> this list animated last November( after a question of Omar) when SO MANY
> MEANINGS WERE CIRCULATING before this deliriac hurricane of May.

    foudelire hurry
 
> His theory of simulation is RATIONALLY CORRECT even if the stylistic
> form sounds a little surealistic. But tell me : Do you really
> believe that the Gulf war was the SAME as the war by this name 
> that we carefully watched and listened in CNN ?
> Are you sure that this war was not a pure simulation , a postmodern
> aspect of all future wars concerning super Powers ?
> In the same time who cares if in Rwanda or Zaire some hundred thousands
> poor devils are massacred for nothing ? Have you ever asked yourselves 
> why CNN is not covering the same these conflicts as it did 6 years ago 
> with the Gulf ? Do you know how many people have been massacred since 
> 1991 in the whole planet and why WE THE WESTERNERS don't carry about ?

    to shop for brand hook book rook brook hand lure for to catch the 
dead that our ancestors did not 
 
> Why we ignore the real facts but in the same time we are silly victims
> of mediatised simulation ? Why our everyday lives are as artifacts
> and why the thick curtain of alienation does not permit us to look
> outside in clear mind ? Baudrillard is not illusive or irrational
> or delirious or paranoiac as some critics wanted him some years ago.
> He has been the first to speak seriously on consumtion and production
> in the early seventies to his students -and me- in Nanterre faculty
> but he was not "discovered" by the media at the time. I consider his
> early " systeme des objects" as the best attempt to bring innovation
> to the tired scholarly "Sociologie des professeurs et Academiciens"
> His "Economie politique du signe " is the best marriage of Semiology
> to the old Marxian Political Economy AND IT DID OPEN NEW HORIZONS
> inspiring thousands of young scholars. This has been the social impact
> of Baudrillard's thought to the younger generations.

   exchange an empty sign by which you say someone else sees: a thick 
monocle and cord 
 
> Since some people in this list prefer delirious ways of expression,and
> word-games,  its natural that serious meanings seem to them full of rant
> or even ridiculous. Some, as RR keep on hiding their love because:
> 
> > who knows not how to hide , knows not how to love
> 
> Well, if this is not a kind of ... Dutch joke, then I understand that 
> whatever important ( LOVE I guess ) has to be well preserved from the
> public eyes, because  people are ferocious animals  etc. etc.


    beginning a serious rant people behind the public eyes
 
>    The triumph of individuality my dear ( not flying ) Dutchman !
>       Our collective future will be a game of hide-and-seek is it n't ? 

     harriet my dear             
            
> About delirium ( tremens and tremendum ), really  I don't think that
> the phrase :
> 
> >"[ Puisque le monde prend un cours delirant, nous devons prendre sur lui un
> >point de vue delirant] Il vaut mieux perir par les extremes que par les
> >extremites"
> 
> is anything more than a bitter acceptance that if it's a mad mad mad 
> World,then we have to look at it as a comedy rather than a tragedy.
> You remember the old film by this title ? It was rather a satire of high 
> speed and people running around with no reason ,and still it was mid-sixties.
>  What could Virilio say about this syndrome of running with no reason ?
> Well, Baudrillard is clear : The World IS NOT DELIRIOUS BY ITSELF ( life is
> never
> delirious especially with empty stomach,instead it's bloody practical ) IT
> IS PRESENTED AS SUCH BY POSTMODERN MEDIA aiming to drive all of us crazy
> ( just have a look at MTV and admire the high art of myriads of video-clips ).
> So, tell me if you are forcely watching ( against your free will having no 
> other choice ) this... majestical channel,how will you respond as a person of
> some intellect ? RATHER AS YOUR GRANDPA IN THE MUSIC HALL ( or the analogue
> Bourlesque theater in France ).

  [this is a lot better]

  rather as your grandpa in the music hall, burlesque a theatre in France
 
> Well, Baudrillard insists that THE WHOLE OF OUR WESTERN POSTMODERNITY IS 
> A KIND OF HUGE SCREEN WHERE IMPOTENT WATCHERS HAVE NOT OTHER CHOICE THAN 
> LOOKING ( some of them as you and me waiting with the hope to be informed by
> the latest news of the World on what is really happening in this World ,
> knowing in advance however that 99 % of these info are falsified by purpose
> and still trying to analyse , to critisize to take out some particles of Truth
> that we all need so desperately and still so rarely have.)

   watched from both sides from a space within a screen
 
> Thanks Daniel of reminding us how mad mad and delirious our postmodernity is
> but you came second, we all knew it before from the media , no need to affirm
> it once more.
> 
> In this list I DO HOPE TO INCREASE MY VISION OF THE WORLD .

   capitals
 
> Why nobody speaks about the last Tuesday's conference of Baudrillard in London ?
> 
> There is not interest on that , but all are suddently interested on defending
> the right of every Carter to transform the one list after another in MTV 
> SCREENS  SERVING HIS INTELLECTUAL VIDEO-CLIPS
> 
> Well, the future will show what will happen to this list.
> 
> I don't dare to ask the list-owner's opinion on that because it will be
> considered
> as an attempt for .....censors. The question is : What really is the need of 
> list-owners in our free free free postmodernities of delirious expressions.
>  
> Nikos
> 
    censors I dont dare to ask as their expressions I follow