File spoon-archives/baudrillard.archive/baudrillard_1999/baudrillard.9912, message 46


Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 23:13:16 +0000
From: Kevin Turner <k.turner-AT-lancaster.ac.uk>
Subject: JB's later writing


Douglas,

It is easy to be flippant with words, and it is something we all do - myself
included - with remarkable ease.  Moreover, you are quite right to complain
about it, because I think it is a fundamental flaw in much academic (and non
academic) writing: if only we could all be as self-reflexive as we'd like to be
- now there's and ideal to live up to.

As for what it is I like about Baudrillard's later writing, this will take some
thinking about, and careful writing about, and so will get back to you on this
(probably in the New Year). Having said that, one of the aspects I like about
his later work is his writing style: the mixing of poetical and theoretical
(academic) writing, the way he tries to use writing as a performance of what it
is he is talking about, his attempt to get away from a materialist language, and
the use of irony as a heuristic device.

Kevin.



douglas kellner wrote:

> OK, Kevin, re-read the book...
> While I have some criticisms of middle Baudrillard I take it that is where
> his most important theoretical contributions lie--the new problematic of
> simulation, hyperreality, implosion, the ecstasy of communication, it is
> here he addresses the consequences of the high-tech revolution we are now
> engaging, he was first radical theorist of this sphere, this work continues
> to be important which is why I continue to use JB....
> I would like you to know what you like about his later work and I retract
> the two negative labels I attached to it in my email which is a good example
> of what I was complaining about....
> cheers, dk
> ________
> Douglas Kellner
> Graduate School of Education; Moore Hall
> UCLA
> Los Angeles, CA 90095-1521
> kellner-AT-ucla.edu
> Fax= 310 206-6293
> phone=310 825-0977
>
> www.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/kellner/kellner.html
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Turner <k.turner-AT-lancaster.ac.uk>
> To: baudrillard-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> <baudrillard-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: This message is a demonstration of goodwill...
>
> >Douglas,
> >
> >My memory of reading your book is that, yes you do argue that Baudrillard's
> >"early work is an extremely solid and important development of a political
> >economy of the sign..."
> >
> >It's the stuff regarding Baudrillard's _middle period_ that I had most
> problem
> >with, and that put me off reading Baudrillard. That's why I am surprised to
> hear
> >you say "middle Baudrillard is simply brilliant."
> >
> >So, perhaps I should take you up on your suggestion and re-read your book.
> >
> >As for the later Baudrillard, I find it neither silly nor offensive. I
> agree it
> >can appear so, but I think on closer reading Baudrillard's arguments are
> quite
> >subtle and incisive - and extremely entertaining.
> >
> >As for placing catagorising you: Yes, I take your point, things are much
> more
> >complex than simply being "anti-Baudrillard," "Marxist," etc.
> >
> >It's also true that labels, once they have stuck, are hard things to get
> rid of
> >- a good example is Baudrillard as the "high priest of postmodernity," when
> in
> >fact his is both anti-modernist and anti-postmodernist (if I may be allowed
> such
> >crass terminology).
> >
> >Hope to engage with you so more when I have re-read your book - K
> >


   

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