Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 21:20:57 +0000
From: "steve.devos" <steve.devos-AT-krokodile.com>
Subject: conversational space...


John

This arrived from a guy on another list the below quote may be of
interest in our discussion...


> "And what do I propose persons can become?  Self-accountable
> interlocutors in conversation which shapes their
> world of experience in its details and its overall
> form ("weltanschauung", etc.).  To be brief, but hopefully
> offer something of value: Imagine yourself as
> one of the senior faculty of a university, prep school or
> psychoanalytic training institute, or a member of a
> parole board, or a member of the "executive committee"
> of a corporation, etc. discussing with your peers the
> problem of what to do about a problematic [student,
> intern, prisoner, employee, etc.].  Think about the
> quality of the experience: being part of a flowing give-and-take
> in which you mostly "forget about yourself" (except, maybe, to
> get a bottle of Perrier, or whatever...) and are engrossed
> in a conversation in which *who* says what mostly
> fades into the background, as the foreground is
> occupied by the adjudication of THE OBJECT OF THE
> PEER CONVERSATIONAL SPACE.
>
> Now, shift your mindset and imagine yourself as the
> "person" being discussed about.  Whatever you say,
> at best gets dismissed, and runs the risk of
> just digging you into a deeper hole ("See, his(her)
> very obstreperousness in continuing to argue they
> are 'right' shows how little insight they have into
> their problem, and how much we need to do something
> about them...." "Yes, that does seem to be the
> case....") "

I quote the above because it and what follows the above quote which I
have [snipped] does not avoid the problematic position we are all in,
but attempts to delineate the crux of the symbolic problem. i.e what
constitutes something better and why we find it hard to get there !

regards
steve.devos
http://www.krokodile.com/out2/bertrand.htm