File spoon-archives/baudrillard.archive/baudrillard_2001/baudrillard.0102, message 17


From: "Paul Tarry" <paul.tarry-AT-btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: baudrillard & the Gulf War
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:02:06 -0000


Maybe Baudrillard would be honoured at the title "maniac savage" and surely
he must have chuckled at that. Jean?

Doesn't his line of attack deny that the events in the Gulf added up to a
war because you have to have two sides and some fighting for a "war"? In
this instance that was not the case. So if it wasn't a war, what was it?

I'm enjoying the posts and it was great to see "no room for irony" on a
Baudrillard list. I look forward to learning some more in your company about
this thinker who intrigues, perplexes and baffles me.

Bests,

Paul


----- Original Message -----
From: Clifford Duffy <cwduff-AT-hotmail.com>
To: <baudrillard-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
Sent: 14 February 2001 04:26
Subject: Re: baudrillard & the Gulf War


>
> Dear Dr.Salwa I agree with you %100  that the Gulf war did take place and
I
> would be a damn fool if I did not think so. Only savages and maniacs could
> think otherwise. Pace baudrillard: I think his point or at least the
several
> points which he raised in The Gulf War Did Not place and its sequels was
> that for the "western" audience , and yes, that is a horrible word to  use
> but true, the war did not happen. It happened on their screens, there was
no
> real feeling which was the case during the War in Vietnam. The effect of
the
> reporting was to close the real events off and to control completely the
> senses of those seeing what took place.Apart from the cameras sitting in
the
> jets and missiles which sent "live-action" imagery back to the miliarized
> viewers. It is and was a  horrifying reality. war reduced to image fight
and
> simulacra as the terror of denial of the event as what never happened, and
> this is what Baudrillard is getting at in his book. Of course, he says
this
> much more effectively than I do. Or at least in the language of his
> choosing. Ia m not especially comfortable with him and his writing. How
> could one be? All disappears into the black hole. Including the
> colloboration of the Western media and its entourages. And yes, it is the
> people who have payed for the tyrant and its despotic and mad regime. I
was
> just reading Sat. edition ofthe NY times and there was Colin Powell
getting
> ready to head off to the Middle East and saying the same old rhetoric of
> denial and hatred. Keep the sanctions he says; what a monster, and yes, it
> is monstrous and terrifying to think what the "empire", the truly evil
> empire has done tothe People of Iraq. I believe that one day that American
> society will pay for all the blood it has shed, and for all the innocent
> lives it has helped to destroy, and also that it will pay for the
thousands
> and thousands left sick, crippled, deprived and shattered. Empires do not
> last forever.
>
> This is just a mere summary very crudely written I realize of my feelings
> about this disaster. One can only feel utter sorrow at the disaster of
human
> life in this planet.
>
> But with each child born there is hope.
> I believe that,
> I thank you,
> Clifford Duffy
>
> >From: "Dr. Salwa Ghaly" <sghaly-AT-sharjah.ac.ae>
> .  Pace Baudrillard, but the Gulf war did take
> >place, depleted uranium *was* used, and now children are living with the
> >consequences of the war *and* the sanctions.
> >
> >Salwa Ghaly
> >
> >"steve.devos" wrote:
> >
> > > Clifford
> > >
> > > By the same token almost as many people were killed in the peace
effort
> >in
> > > Kosovo.
> > >
> > > sdv
> > >
> > > Clifford Duffy wrote:
> > >
> > > > Out ofthe black hole came Baudrillard's book about the Gulf war
which
> >I
> > > > though was trenchant and true. A nasty war which left and has
> >continued to
> > > > leave thousands and thousands deprived. The empire which kills
> >millions.
> > > > America the mad.
> > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >http://www.hotmail.com.
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
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>
>


   

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