File spoon-archives/baudrillard.archive/baudrillard_2001/baudrillard.0109, message 53


Subject: Re: Hello
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:29:16 +0200


Dear mitchel,
The problem with you is that you get all the information from people such as
Noam Chomsky, who are not historian at all, but a very leftist, and is very
oriented by his ideology. Benny Moris indeed provide details on how
Palestinians were deported, but he didn't say different things then what I
said about the causes of 48 war.
But I don't need all these books. I live in Israel, I know the people who
participated in 48 and 67 and 73 wars, I know the historical facts very
well. I am not ideology driven when looking at the historical events, but it
seems you are. isn't it true that the Arabs did not accept the division plan
proposed by the UN at 1947? isn't it true that they started the 48 war?
isn't it true that they murdered hundreds of jews in 36-39 actions? and that
they never wanted to accept the jews in Israel?
Enough with this all stories, go and explore the real history, be faithful
to the truth!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "eldorra mitchell" <manynotone-AT-yahoo.co.in>
To: <baudrillard-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: Hello


> -- Dear Shai -- you appear to have absorbed the usual
> myths about the foundationofthe State of Israel. Fair
> enough, but isn't time you learned the history that
> actually happened. Or at least something more accurate
> and more honest? -- I suggest that you begin with
> S.Flapan's works on the foundational Myths of the
> history of Israel. And then go over to Israel Shahak.
> When you have read them, then go and read Benny
> Morris. There are many others. You might also look up
> Noam Chomsky's works. Some of which pay tribute to the
> above mentioned authors. Chomsky of course has many
> texts about Israel, and its status. As early as 48 he
> stopped believing the nonsense being handed out as
> official history. HE worked on a kibbutz and of course
> has many very sobering and sombre insights to offer.
> Then last but not least -- read Edward Said, and start
> with his most recent work and work your way to the
> Question of Palestine. But given your already
> convinced view point I really do suggest your read
> Flapan, Shahak and Morris, and they will start to open
> your mind. To learn is to inquire to research again
> and again, and to verify and cross check. Be open and
> also I suggest you read Middle East Report's primer's
> on Palestine and Israel. There is much to learn and to
> gather and no time to waste.
> Peace and good will to you.
> --- Shai Ophir <shai-o-AT-israsrv.net.il> wrote: > Dear
> Jean, all,
> > [pls forward to 'baud' list, my server doesn't let
> > me do this]
> > I think the terror attack will show the world how
> > terror is dangerous and
> > painful in general. Last year we suffered a lot from
> > the terror in Israel.
> > It is not that I am saying it is good that the US
> > atack took place of
> > course. But the world must understand the Jihad and
> > Islamic atttitude to
> > solving problems.
> > Of course people might say "but in Israel you are
> > the conquor, and the
> > Palestinians are the weak and humiliated side". But
> > this is not correct. The
> > palestinian propaganda uses the ignorance of most
> > people in the history of
> > other nations. Israel state was established after
> > the UN approved the new
> > state. If the palestinians accepted the UN plane in
> > 1947 for divided
> > palestine into 2 pieces there was no war in 48. The
> > palestinians started the
> > war in 48. The arab nations never accepted Israel as
> > a legitimate state in
> > the middle east. I believe the Jewish people have
> > the right to build a state
> > of their own in Israel, since they coul;d not rest
> > peacefully in any other
> > place in the world. because of the Holocaust. They
> > didn't mind to share it
> > with the Palestinians, but the P refused. The
> > occupation in 1967 was also a
> > result of the hostility of all Arab nations against
> > Israel. It was Israel's
> > mistake to hold this occupied land, I agree, but
> > Israel is the one that
> > always wanted to reach a peace agreement, even in
> > the proce of giving up
> > parts of the land. Put it turns to be that the
> > Palestinians want to come
> > back to exactly the places they were living before
> > 48. How that can be? They
> > have no right for this now.
> > Hope I made the picture a bit clearer to some of you
> > at least.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "JEAN BAUDRILLARD"
> > <semanticterrorist-AT-home.com>
> > To: "baud" <baudrillard-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 12:36 AM
> > Subject: Hello
> >
> >
> > > Hello, everyone.  It seems that this list is
> > somewhat quiet.  Well,
> > > perhaps some conversation needs to be
> > started...what does everyone
> > > think about the events of sept. 11?
> > > --
> > > JEAN BAUDRILLARD, semanticterrorist-AT-home.com on
> > 09/16/2001
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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