From: "Tobin Nellhaus" <nellhaus-AT-gwi.net> Subject: BHA: Re: idtd Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:09:54 -0500 Hi Howard-- Sorry, I can't follow you in converting the TD/ID distinction into a material/conceptual and causal/noncausal distinction. The transitive ideas of science are still causally efficacious. I suspect some material things can be considered transitive, if they are (in RB's phrase) "techniques of inquiry" (technologies are based on ideas: the telescope was developed via the theory of optics, astrological charts on the theory of planetary influences). > Suppose I build improve and refashion the telescope. Is the > telescope I supercede transitive? In the sense that an astronomer can disuse the old-model telescope and adopt the new one in order to conduct research, why not? If "transitive" means anything in RB's analysis, surely it must include the possibility of changing the techniques/technologies of inquiry. At the same time, let's not dismiss the value of "tinkering with the equipment" in the history of scientific discovery. If I remember right, something along those lines led to the discovery of (how to produce) X-rays. So the technology again appears transitive. Others...: Marshall: I have no objection to the notion of extrapolating from causal tendencies (as presently known, of course) in order to plan for or anticipate the future. Can't avoid it: I extrapolate from my car's tendency to operate in order to plan grocery shopping. But of course we're extrapolating from the *past*, knowing full well all sorts of things may intervene; and so in large-scale anticipations (like city planning), presumably one tries to anticipate the unanticipated as well, again drawing from the *past* some ideas of how things can go awry. David and Colin: okay, I can go along that the TD/ID distinction isn't *simply* temporal. Parts of the past are clearly part of present-day inquiry. Regarding Dr F's scientific practice, yes, I'd meant to write that mirco-organisms were intransitive to Old Vic's mad schemes. Re David's recipe, to paraphrase Howard's quotation from Bhaskar: "The material cause, in this sense, of David's recipe for Spam Extract consisted of the ingredients out of which he fashioned his curious brew." All I can say is, I'm glad I'm a veggie. --- Tobin Nellhaus nellhaus-AT-gwi.net "Faith requires us to be materialists without flinching": C.S. Peirce --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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