Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:28:18 From: Louis Irwin <lirwin-AT-ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: BHA: Re: Aristotle and all that Hi Wallace, I take your question to ask about conditions that allow the emergence of a society. Presumably a society cannot emerge from just any set of prior conditions that include the existence of people. I am tempted to say that societies are like pornography: I know them when I see them! That is, I know social relations when I see them (or at least some of them), and I know they are reducible, but exactly what the empirical conditions for emergence of society are I cannot say, or at least not well. I am not familiar with the works you mention - sorry to be so unhelpful, but I wager there are more than a few on the list who have something to offer. Louis [snip] >You say that Bhaskar "views society as emergent from the individual actions >of its members, in which case society has some causal features that cannot >be reduced to those of its members. Social relations embody causal features >that were not present prior to the emergence of society, and individual >actions are no longer what they were insofar as they participate in social >relations." > >I agree with this, but I have a question. Would it be an accurate paraphrase >of the above position to say that societies are not merely emergent from >individual actions but are _emergent from individual actions occurring in >the context of human populations (of a certain size and/or density)_? Seems >obvious enough to me, but anyway, if this is the case, how do we know when a >society has emerged? For instance, how large a population is necessary >and/or sufficient? And if it depends not only on population size and/or >density but also on other factors (which is in fact what I would expect), >what other factors are relevant? > >If these questions are too broad to be answered effectively by email, >perhaps you could suggest a few books or articles that might help me to get >a handle on this from a CR perspective (or a perspective compatible with >CR). Do you have any opinions, for instance, about Jared Diamond's recent >book "Guns, Germs, and Steel" or about anthropologist Marvin Harris's >"cultural materialism"? In his book "Cultural Materialism," Harris >characterized his position as being based on positivism, but I've always >thought his approach was in many ways compatible, at least, with >philosophical realism, and perhaps even with critical realism. From what >little I've read so far, Diamond seems to me to be an inheritor of cultural >materialism, though he rarely if ever mentions Harris's work. Anyone else >care to venture an opinion on this topic? --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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