From: "Tobin Nellhaus" <nellhaus-AT-gwi.net> Subject: Re: BHA: Santa, God, kneeling Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:39:31 +0300 Hi Colin-- Geez, my post took a full day to hit the list. Ain't computers great? Hope this one arrives faster. It's probably just as well I'm going offline again in a few days. Accounting for your Yuletide behavior in terms of others' (particularly your son's) belief in Santa is fine, and perfectly consistent. But my other question (Sherlock Holmes, Lady Macbeth) concerned characters from novels and plays. *Nobody* needs to believe they ever existed (outside the discourses in which they appear), yet they can still influence us. > If good old Holmes and the dear Lady did not really exist AND >(AND AND, just so no one can claim I am oversimplifying the power of >beliefs) if no one ever thought/believed/had knowledge of them, then yes I >would be tempted to say they would have no causal power. I think what I'm suggesting is that thought, belief, and knowledge need to be untangled, and that they are not always connected to causal power. I don't think you really mean to equate the three terms (despite the phrasing above). Anyway I think you'll agree that even for certain social entities, one doesn't need to think about, believe, or even know about them for them to have an effect (e.g., a tendency for the rate of profit to fall, or whatever). I'm adding that it's possible for an entire society to *know* about some social entity, *disbelieve* in it, yet be affected by it; and that fictional characters are commonplace examples. I know about Lady Macbeth, I don't believe she ever "really" existed and I doubt anyone else does, yet her sleepwalking scene disturbs and moves me and many other spectators. So when you write, "Beliefs are CRUCIAL in the social world," I hesitate. There seems to be at least one category of social entities for which belief is not very important. Perhaps my analysis is mistaken? Okay, fine, show me. But if it's more or less correct, then we need to say that the importance of beliefs in the social world varies according to the object and context. Cheers, T. --- Tobin Nellhaus nellhaus-AT-gwi.net "Faith requires us to be materialists without flinching": C.S. Peirce --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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