Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:01:14 +1000
From: Gary MacLennan <g.maclennan-AT-qut.edu.au>
Subject: On the list - a reply to Howard was Re: BHA: DPF section 6 on its way


>Hope all this is not too grouchy.  You probably would have found the
original 
>certifiably grouchy version more entertaining.  But I couldn't take out on
all of 
>you the charms of the rest of my day.  Still our collective reading of
Dialectic 
>has so far been full of its own frustrations, wouldn't you agree?
>
>Howard
>
>
>Howard,

You being grouchy? - 'NEVER!  Not ever? Well hardly ever.' Of course what
you outline is an ideal and we should certainly work towards it.  But
everyone is bloody busy.  Also a little encouragement is within order too.
You have to acknowledge that the piece from Alan is of great value.  Those
of us who lurk and I have been in a semi-lurker state for months, still get
a lot out of reading what Alan had to say.  

Now we have been at DPF for over a year and have not got very far, but we
are still hanging in there. Moreover I have been involved now with two
reading groups here in Brisbane and I have used the previous readings as
introductions to DPF and they have proved very useful.  I suspect that I am
not the only one using the list discussions in this way.

But on a more general note we should definitely have a think about how to
run the list.  We had one in Warwick but nothing emerged in Essex.  That
was a shame and I think a serious oversight by those of us from the list
who were there.

My own comments about the list are that it lacks focus.  It needs to see
itself as part of the Critical Realist movement.  The question is what
position should the list have within that movement? My answer is that
ideally it should serve as an introduction to Critical Realist thought.
Critical Realism is still a fairly marginal part of the academic community
-though it is making great progress.  In any case a mailing list is an
invaluable resource in the building of such a movement.

Now I want to be careful here.  I am not saying the list should consist
only of critical realists. Anyone is of course welcome to come along for
the ride.  But I do think the list should not be dominated by anti-Critical
Realist thought as it has at times in the past. I repeat that we should be
focused on clarifying and developing critical realism.  
_
At the moment I do not think we are focused sufficiently on such a purpose.
 To do so the list would have to have a steering panel who would arrange
topics and encourage activities.  There would be four kinds of posts I
think in a reorganized list

1. Seminars
2. Readings
3. Work-in progress submissions
4. News/gossip/list reflections

Now that means really that anyone would be pretty much allowed to post
anything.  I would make of course an exception.  There was the notorious
Ralph Dumain period when the list sat back and allowed a series of posts
which were an absolute scandal. Action was eventually taken but we should
all have reacted at once to the presence of posts which were abusive and
rabidly sexist.

Such actions apart the main function of the steering group would be to see
that posts in the categories 1. and 2.  take place.

We had an ideal opportunity with the truth topic this year.  That should
have been signalled in advance, a time-line established -3-4 weeks for the
seminar- and people asked to prepare submissions. We could then have had a
series of discussion posts and some attempt to produce closure by
requesting final comments or addresses in reply.  

The advantage of nominating topics for seminars is that we could invite
guest submissions on the topic from people who are not normally on the
list.  We could for instance ask Bhaskar/Collier/Archer to take part in a
cyber seminar.  This would only entail them being on the list for three
weeks or so.

Other possible topics for seminars include Critical Realist politics or
ethics. Caroline's work on Critical Realism and feminism is very important
and I would love to see it the focus of a seminar. But I am biased here
because I have a student who is using Caroline's work for her thesis.

I am also especially interested in Andrew Collier's criticisms of Bhaskar's
ethics in Essential Readings.  There there is a cryptic note from Norrie
and Bhaskar that Collier has taken something out of context.  It would be
great if we could get all that clarified.

The second type of posts readings does not require a great deal of comment
from me.  I endorse Howard's description of the ideal but will not get all
worked up about the lack of perfection in the real material world that we
all inhabit.  Howard's tendency to voluntarism is peeping out here I suspect.

The third category of posts - work in submissions is a valuable outlet for
those of us who have written heaps but cannot get it published anywhere.
On a personal level I am finding this a real problem.  I write on
Australian film - docos and that narrows the market.  I also have a
Critical Realist Position and that marginalises me even further, and if you
add that I am a Dialectical Critical Realist then I am still more on the
periphery -even on this list which is still has a Critical Realist
majority, I think.

But I do get really valuable feedback -often off list- from the posts I
have done. This helps me feel much less marginalised and isolated and that
surely should be one of the lists prime objectives - to give the concept of
a Critical realist movement some sort of a reality even if it is a virtual
one.

My fourth  type of posts is really a grab bag.  This category is there to
allow any kind of posts whatsoever - except that is those posts which are
hostile to the notion of a decent, self -respecting community of scholars.



Finally I think we should not be alarmed at the slowness of the pace of the
list.  That is inevitable and anyway I think things work too frantically in
this world.  I am also reminded here about my time in the International
Socialists.  The powers that were within the organization kept us busy at
meeting after meeting so that we had no time to reflect and come up with
any creative alternatives.

regards

Gary


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