From: "John Game" <JG10-AT-soas.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:36:37 GMT Subject: Re: BHA:International law a subset of critical morality Hi Tobin, Thanks for the measured response. Perhaps one consequence of us all having moral sensibilities is that we all fly off the handle sometimes. One reason I became upset was that it seemed to me that your response to Jonathan marked a step backwards from what you had rightly described as the more fruitful tone of the discussion. I remain a little unhappy about the implication that those of us who did'nt agree with your position did'nt give a damn about the Kosovo Albanians and also the implication about dogma which seems to translate sometimes as "ideas one disagrees with" (stratagies of condensension?). My own tendency to fly off the handle during the discussion was partly motivated by my horror at the consequences of the NATO intervention for them (and my rather crude remarks about Kant reflected this). But perhaps this is simply part of the proliferation of misunderstandings you refer to. These concerns, importantly, are related to how I would argue with the "concerned individual" (I absolutely agree with your point about the importance of this). Consequentialism is, I think, an important part of the argument. Like Ruth, I was influenced by an account of morality based on virtue rather then rights, but, the events of the last two weeks and the discussions on this list has at least placed deep questions in my mind about the deontological critique of consequentialism (in particular the ideological motivation and/or uses to which such a critique can be put). I am aware of course that "moral theory" and the way it poses these questions is a highly reified manner of speaking of such issues. Which brings me onto your reference to Bordieu, buried deeply in your polemic with Jonathan. At the most superficial level some of the remarks by other contributers, most recently around your own arguments with my-self and others seem as Bordieu once put it "almost designed for the delight of the sociologist". This perhaps reached its peak in the rather fruitless debate about Bhaskar's style reaching a particulerly "delightful" pitch in the debates about the "average Phd". I intend nothing polemical or "flame-like" in these remarks. I simply mean that the (more recent) exchange between Mervyn and Ruth involves more then standards of etiquette. Or rather etiquette can mask other kinds of deeper differences. There is a danger that theoretical and philosophical differences can be shifted to the terraine of etiquette thus subtly shifting the rules of the game and the variouse kinds of cultural capital available to people (is it the tone or the issues being raised that are problematical? If it is both why don't we try and untangle them?) Is the curiouse silence of some of the more regular contributers to the list (despite my previouse fury at your method of argument it is to your credit that you saw the issue as being worth arguing about) a function of buffoons like my- self or the issue it-self? There is something very odd about the symmetry between Ruth's and Carrol's position on this (if I'm misreading please correct or even attack me!!). My reason for bringing Bordieu in are that I wonder what relation his sociology might have to Bhaskar's philosophy. The answer to this question would raise interesting questions about both perhaps. John G. --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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