File spoon-archives/bhaskar.archive/bhaskar_2000/bhaskar.0002, message 48


Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:27:21 +0000
From: Mervyn Hartwig <mh-AT-jaspere.demon.co.uk>
Subject: BHA: Re: How is New York Today- fate of [Social Science]?


Hi Colin, all

As you know, I think Bhaskar uses words very precisely and never even
verging on the perverse. The transitive/intransitive distinction has
been adapted from grammar. A transitive verb changes its object
('expresses an action which passes over into the object' according to
the Concise OED), an intransitive verb does not. Is not this the exact
distinction between the two dimensions Bhaskar wishes to convey - one is
changed by ongoing human action, the other not?

Mervyn

Colin Wight <Colin.Wight-AT-aber.ac.uk> writes
>A quick lurch out of lurking..
>
>
>Yes the terms are transitive and intransitive, and yes I think Tobin is
>right that and transitive objects can be intransitive to a given observer;
>i.e. what Bhaskar writes on page 3 of RTS is intransitive to any transitive
>comment on it. The terms are basically context dependent and relational. I
>have no idea of why these terms were chosen, in fact, from my dictionary
>definition they are verging on the perverse. Intransitive, for example, is
>in the Chambers Concise as: "representing action confined to the agent;
>i.e. having no object"...However, what I think he was wanting to get away
>from was the subject/object sense of the two domains Tobin alludes to. This
>plays some role, but for RB transitive objects are socially constructed
>(nor are they simply thoughts, but can be material models constructed of
>intransitive objects (models of DNA for example are transitive attempts at
>capturing something of the ID domain) and not pertaining only to
>individuals; although I know Tobin did not mean to suggest this.
>
>At 16:03 25/02/00 -0500, you wrote:
>>Marsh wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a bit confused by your comment. I don't equate transient with
>>material.
>>> Science is a material practice (just consider Los Alamos), but by my
>>reading
>>> of RB's work it's in the transient side of things.
>>
>>Sorry if I seem nitpicky, but the terms are actually
>>transitive/intransitive, not transient/intransient.  I bring this up because
>>I suspect that it's causing some unclarity.  The transitive dimension (TD)
>>is roughly equivalent to the epistemological sphere, and the intransitive
>>dimension (ID) more or less the ontological sphere.  I have to admit I've
>>never completely understood Bhaskar's choice of terminology here, but as
>>near as I can make out, the idea is that the TD is the "subject's" side of
>>knowledge ("I think about X," which is a transitive situation), and the ID
>>is the "object's" side ("the thing that's being thought about"), except that
>>thoughts and ideas can always themselves become objects of investigation.
>>So materiality is an entirely separate matter.  But perhaps someone has a
>>better grasp of the terminological choice.
>>
>>---
>>Tobin Nellhaus
>>nellhaus-AT-mail.com
>>"Faith requires us to be materialists without flinching": C.S. Peirce
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>>
>>
>============================================>
>
>Dr. Colin Wight
>Department of International Politics
>University of Wales, Aberystwyth
>Wales
>SY23 3DA
>Tel: (01970) 621769 
>
>
>     --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

-- 
Mervyn Hartwig


     --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

   

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