From: "Marshall Feldman" <marsh-AT-uri.edu> Subject: BHA: RE: Re: How is New York Today- fate of [Social Science]? Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 10:38:57 -0500 Right you are, Tobin. My mistake. Sorry, my mind has been elsewhere the past few weeks. Marsh Feldman BTW, the terminology does not change the question. Human practice involves a double or even triple hermeneutic in that human practices and institutions depend on the transitive understandings of people. Nonetheless, once those institutions are in place they take on features similar to the intransitive dimension of natural science in that they "act behind the backs" of the people who create, participate in, and rely on them. In this way I find Brian Fay's notion of "quasi-laws" useful and think we can speak of a quasi-intransitive dimension. I also think discussions of Marx's method from the 1970's are, in some senses, richer than this. Marx, for example, speaks of levels of abstraction, and in a certain sense that's what we're talking about. For example, at the highest level of abstraction we can speak of people as being creatures needing food, clothing, and shelter. At a lower level, we can speak of humans as creating permanent, or at least long-lasting, human settlements which are instrumental in satisfying these needs. At still a lower level, we can speak of capitalist cities, with their specific features such as land and labor markets, local state apparatuses, etc. At still a lower level, we can speak of "Los Angeles" in the year 2000 and such things as the local economy, race relations, gender relations, etc. While certain features of "human nature" at the highest level of abstraction may be intransitive, clearly the historically and geographically specific practices of contemporary city-building are transitive not only in a geographical and historical sense, but also in an epistemological sense because both how we understand city-building is transitive and the understandings implicated in city-building are too. (E.g., look at how "sustainability" is in vogue today.) The whole point is that epistemology belongs to human practice and therefore is not only how we study but also what we study. -----Original Message----- From: owner-bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu [mailto:owner-bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of Tobin Nellhaus Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 4:03 PM To: bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu Subject: BHA: Re: How is New York Today- fate of [Social Science]? Marsh wrote: > I'm a bit confused by your comment. I don't equate transient with material. > Science is a material practice (just consider Los Alamos), but by my reading > of RB's work it's in the transient side of things. Sorry if I seem nitpicky, but the terms are actually transitive/intransitive, not transient/intransient. I bring this up because I suspect that it's causing some unclarity. The transitive dimension (TD) is roughly equivalent to the epistemological sphere, and the intransitive dimension (ID) more or less the ontological sphere. I have to admit I've never completely understood Bhaskar's choice of terminology here, but as near as I can make out, the idea is that the TD is the "subject's" side of knowledge ("I think about X," which is a transitive situation), and the ID is the "object's" side ("the thing that's being thought about"), except that thoughts and ideas can always themselves become objects of investigation. So materiality is an entirely separate matter. But perhaps someone has a better grasp of the terminological choice. --- Tobin Nellhaus nellhaus-AT-mail.com "Faith requires us to be materialists without flinching": C.S. Peirce --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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