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File spoon-archives/bhaskar.archive/bhaskar_2001/bhaskar.0101, message 55


From: "Erik Weissengruber" <epweissengruber-AT-hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: BHA: RE: Re: what's next
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:08:39 -0500


<html><DIV>
<P>any consensus on how to proceede?</P>
<P>Archer?</P>
<P>DPF?</P>
<P>DPF and Archer?</P>
<P>Hegel, Marx and DPF?</P>
<P><BR><BR> </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Phil Walden <PHIL-AT-PWALDEN.FSNET.CO.UK>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu 
<DIV></DIV>>To: bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu 
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: BHA: RE: Re: what's next 
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:32:06 -0000 
<DIV></DIV>> 
<DIV></DIV>>Caroline, Mervyn, 
<DIV></DIV>> 
<DIV></DIV>>Caroline, what is the 'key concepts' approach? 
<DIV></DIV>> 
<DIV></DIV>>Mervyn, I suggest a discussion of whether Bhaskar's approach to dialectics 
<DIV></DIV>>squares with that of Hegel (in the SCIENCE OF LOGIC) and that of Marx 
<DIV></DIV>>(outlined in GRUNDRISSE), and if not why are the dialectics of these great 
<DIV></DIV>>thinkers not commensurate? That should get to the nub of things. It would 
<DIV></DIV>>certainly lead to an answer to Ruth's question about the relationship 
<DIV></DIV>>between materialism and critical realism. 
<DIV></DIV>> 
<DIV></DIV>>Am I the only lister who finds the (non)-debate between social 
<DIV></DIV>>constructionism and "realism" extremely artificial? It seems to be a way of 
<DIV></DIV>>avoiding dialectics altogether. How, Mervyn, is Archer "beginning to nibble 
<DIV></DIV>>at dialectics"? If somebody who wants to discuss Archer's book could briefly 
<DIV></DIV>>outline how they think it is relevant to an assessment of Bhaskar's 
<DIV></DIV>>DIALECTIC, I for one would be grateful. 
<DIV></DIV>> 
<DIV></DIV>>Phil Walden 
<DIV></DIV>> 
<DIV></DIV>> 
<DIV></DIV>> 
<DIV></DIV>> > -----Original Message----- 
<DIV></DIV>> > From: owner-bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu 
<DIV></DIV>> > [mailto:owner-bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of Caroline 
<DIV></DIV>> > New 
<DIV></DIV>> > Sent: 24 January 2001 11:59 
<DIV></DIV>> > To: bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu 
<DIV></DIV>> > Subject: BHA: Re: what's next 
<DIV></DIV>> > 
<DIV></DIV>> > 
<DIV></DIV>> > Ruth asks for lurkers to come out. I would like a group reading of 'Being 
<DIV></DIV>> > Human', and then go back to DPF, using the 'key concepts' (!) approach. 
<DIV></DIV>> > Caroline 
<DIV></DIV>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
<DIV></DIV>> > From: "Mervyn Hartwig" <MH-AT-JASPERE.DEMON.CO.UK>
<DIV></DIV>> > To: <BHASKAR-AT-LISTS.VILLAGE.VIRGINIA.EDU>
<DIV></DIV>> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 5:30 PM 
<DIV></DIV>> > Subject: BHA: what's next 
<DIV></DIV>> > 
<DIV></DIV>> > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > Hi all, 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > Ruth wrote: 
<DIV></DIV>> > > >what in the bejeezis are we going to do about breathing 
<DIV></DIV>> > > >some life back into our extremely quiet list?! A good healthy 
<DIV></DIV>> > discussion 
<DIV></DIV>> > > >about whether one can be a critical realist but not be a 
<DIV></DIV>> > materialist? A 
<DIV></DIV>> > > >return to RTS? Or DPF? Something else? PON? Any ideas? Any takers? 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > I suggest a reading and discussion of: 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > Margaret S. Archer, Being Human: the Problem of Agency. Cambridge 
<DIV></DIV>> > > University Press, 2000. 323pp paperback 0 521 79564 8 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > The third in a trilogy, this deals with the agential basis of her social 
<DIV></DIV>> > > theory. It is a big book in more than one sense, one that any (D)CR 
<DIV></DIV>> > > person will need to read no matter what their particular focus. This is 
<DIV></DIV>> > > what the blurb says: 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 'Humanity and the very notion of the human subject are under threat from 
<DIV></DIV>> > > postmodernist thinking which has declared not only the 'Death of God' 
<DIV></DIV>> > > but also the 'Death of Man'. This book is a revindication of the concept 
<DIV></DIV>> > > of humanity, rejecting contemporary social theory that seeks to diminish 
<DIV></DIV>> > > human properties and powers. Archer argues that being human depends on 
<DIV></DIV>> > > an interaction with the real world in which practice takes primacy over 
<DIV></DIV>> > > language in the emergence of human self-consciousness, thought, 
<DIV></DIV>> > > emotionality and personal identity - all of which are prior to, and 
<DIV></DIV>> > > more basic than, our acquisition of a social identity.' 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > *Being Human* strikes some mighty blows against subjective (linguistic) 
<DIV></DIV>> > > idealism and social constructionism and would provide a platform for 
<DIV></DIV>> > > discussing just about anything within the (D)CR canon. Notwithstanding 
<DIV></DIV>> > > its appropriation of some marxist concepts (including 'the primacy of 
<DIV></DIV>> > > practice') I think the book is ultimately profoundly liberal in its 
<DIV></DIV>> > > worldview and helps to provide a window on the soul of the later 
<DIV></DIV>> > > Bhaskar. 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > Our DPF reading clearly got somewhat bogged down. I think we should put 
<DIV></DIV>> > > it aside for a time - for dipping into now that we've digested a goodly 
<DIV></DIV>> > > chunk of it, rather than wading through - and focus on material that 
<DIV></DIV>> > > listers find more digestible. All the issues raised by the Bhaskarian 
<DIV></DIV>> > > canon could still be brought up. Though I think operating predominantly 
<DIV></DIV>> > > within the analytical problematic, Archer is beginning to nibble at 
<DIV></DIV>> > > dialectics... 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > Unfortunately, I don't know the price of the book but it shouldn't be 
<DIV></DIV>> > > too much, being a paperback. We'd have to wait a bit for people to get 
<DIV></DIV>> > > copies... If listers wanted a more detailed idea of contents before 
<DIV></DIV>> > > deciding, I could provide that. 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > Mervyn 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > > --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- 
<DIV></DIV>> > > 
<DIV></DIV>> > 
<DIV></DIV>> > 
<DIV></DIV>> > 
<DIV></DIV>> > --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- 
<DIV></DIV>> > 
<DIV></DIV>> 
<DIV></DIV>> 
<DIV></DIV>> 
<DIV></DIV>> --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- 
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