File spoon-archives/bhaskar.archive/bhaskar_2003/bhaskar.0309, message 33


Subject: Re: BHA: FWD: Job Opportunity: Agent-Publicist-Fundraiser and Business Manage...
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:30:30 -0400



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mervyn Hartwig" <mh-AT-jaspere.demon.co.uk>
To: <bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: BHA: FWD: Job Opportunity: Agent-Publicist-Fundraiser and
Business Manage...


> A lively thread, at any rate! A few further comments.
>
> 1. To those who thought it was a hoax:  while I'm in no way an official
> spokesperson, to the best of my knowledge (which I think is fair), it's
> not. I don't really know, but I would think the ad was probably approved
> by Bhaskar, though not necessarily in the finer details.
>
> 2. I very much agree with Guenter that honesty is important, but I don't
> find the ad dishonest. It's central message is that Bhaskar is
> 'committed to spreading peace, love and enlightenment through his
> profound understanding of the philosophy of science and human freedom'.
> IMO, he really does think that the times are fast approaching in which
> either 'US New Agers' (etc) can indeed be persuaded to 'drop their
> shrinks and gurus and engage in collective emancipation', or the human
> species will encounter its quietus. It's not 'a clever way of making
> lots of dollars'--he thinks that far-reaching social change is
> imperative now, and that we may well be approaching a historic window of
> opportunity for it. I agree. (The hype re the number of Bhaskar listers
> has been around for a while, but growing like Topsy, and really should
> be checked and corrected by those responsible for publishing it--in this
> case an Indian newspaper.)
>
> 3. This relates to the point made by Mike, who complains that 'oppressed
> people' (and various named categories thereof) don't rate. But of course
> they're embraced by the concept of 'human freedom'. Where Bhaskar would
> part company with Mike's implied position is that he thinks (with Hegel,
> Marx etc) that the oppressors are oppressed too and in need of
> emancipation. The minimal necessary unit for human freedom (for the kind
> of reasons D J Bailey spelt out) is the whole of humanity. We can't
> expect the 'working class' to usher in the good society for us--this is
> substitutionism; we're all responsible. Very true. This is what
> 'self-realization' fundamentally means.
>
> 4. Gareth's point re constructing emergent communities and prising apart
> the issues of fund-raising and audiences is nonetheless very well taken.
> I can only say here that IMO Bhaskar's whole dialectics of freedom
> envisage and call for a complex process of struggle and learning whereby
> such communities are constructed, and one engages where one can. (I
> doubt though whether the distinction between academic and itinerant
> salesmen is as sharp as Gareth implies. For the record, Bhaskar has I
> understand just accepted a 12 months' senior academic posting at
> Uppsala; but for most of his career he has freelanced.)
>
> 5. Oh, and there's Tim's point about fighting fascism. There's nothing I
> know of anywhere in Bhaskar's philosophy that indicates pacifism. On the
> contrary: the message here is aim straight and don't wobble. (Peace,
> love, creativity etc are not here or elsewhere qualities of our acts --- 
> nor are they goals as such --- but fundamental human motives (which is
> what I take Bhaskar to mean by 'ground-state qualities' -- sorry if this
> concept gives you the heebie jeebies, Tim, but I did find your post very
> funny). When we're in a non-alienated state we just do them most of the
> time, otherwise we lose them; but first we've got to get there).
>
> Mervyn
>
>
>
>  >, Richard Moodey <moodey001-AT-mail1.gannon.edu> writes
> >Hi Marsh,
> >
> >That was my first impression, too.  "Ram Roy"?
> >
> >Dick
> >
> >At 09:32 AM 09/16/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >>Come-on, surely the job posting was a joke. Even if he were truly going
in
> >>this direction, the specific rhetoric is so distant from his most
devoted
> >>audience and so reminiscent of new age scam artists (L. Ron Bhaskar?)
that I
> >>can't imagine we're taking this so seriously.
> >>
> >>         Marsh Feldman
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: owner-bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
> >> > [mailto:owner-bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU]On Behalf Of
> >> > Mikehpaed-AT-aol.com
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 7:13 AM
> >> > To: bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
> >> > Subject: Re: BHA: FWD: Job Opportunity: Agent-Publicist-Fundraiser
and
> >> > Business Manage...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > If this job opportunity is for real, I have to add my voice to
> >> > those who are
> >> > disturbed by it.....
> >> >
> >> > "Also, if anyone may want to bring Ram Roy to their campus, place
> >> > of worship
> >> > or other spiritual organization, self-improvement or business forum,
> >> > scientific or technical organization or some other kind of
institution or
> >> > arena for him to speak and receive a fee or an honorarium, please
> >> > also get
> >> > in touch with us. We will try to schedule him to accommodate those
who
> >> > would like to hear him speak at their localities, but Ram Roy
> >> > must be paid
> >> > for these appearances and his expenses must be covered in order for
his
> >> > work to continue."
> >> >
> >> > There is no reference in the list of organizations above to the
following:
> >> >
> >> > labor unions
> >> > environmental groups
> >> > feminist organizations
> >> > people of color
> >> > radical political organizations
> >> > oppressed people
> >> >
> >> > Well, you get my drift...I thought Bhaskar was still claiming to
> >> > be working
> >> > toward an emancipatory society. But for whom?
> >> >
> >> > Mike Slott
> >> >
> >> >
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> >> >
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> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
>
>
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