File spoon-archives/bhaskar.archive/bhaskar_2003/bhaskar.0310, message 30


Subject: BHA: RE: Space and time
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:52:10 -0000
From: "Conlon, Ryan" <r.conlon-AT-lancaster.ac.uk>


You could look at the work of realist geographers such as Andrew Sayer.
See chapters on 'Space and social theory' and 'Geohistorical explanation
and problems of narrative' in his book Realism and Social Science.


Ryan Conlon
Lecturer in Criminology
Department of Applied Social Science
Lancaster University
Lancaster
LA1 4YL
Tel. +44 (0) 1524 593570
email r.conlon-AT-lancaster.ac.uk
http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/apsocsci/staff/conlon.htm

"Let me tell you something, I didn't become a lawyer because I like the
law, the law sucks. It's boring, but it can also be used as a weapon.
You want to bankrupt somebody? Cost him everything he's worked for? Make
his wife leave him, even make his kids cry?  Yeah, we can do that." -
Richard Fish from 'Ally McBeal'


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
[mailto:owner-bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of shiv
kumar
Sent: 29 October 2003 18:42
To: bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU;
bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
Subject: BHA: Space and time



Mervyn, listers,

Are there Critical Realist works specifically on space and/or time? If
so, please name a few.

Thanks, Shiv


Mervyn Hartwig <mh-AT-jaspere.demon.co.uk> wrote:Hi Jamie, Radha

One *would* expect, sociologically, that western Marxism would to some 
extent lose the genuinely global, world-historical and dare I say 
spiritual orientation of Marx. Isn't that Radha's point? How is CR to 
avoid the same fate?

The cultural issues seem to me very pertinent to understanding the 
general issue I raised -- a not uncommon proneness to put down or 
dismiss the later Bhaskar as verbose or obscure or impenetrable or 
speculative or having run off the rails. As long as he was perceived to 
be operating within the confines (on the rails) of western (bourgeois) 
Enlightenment he was fine.

The answer to your question seems to me clearly 'No', otherwise we could

substitute a good crib for the Phenomenology or Bhaskar's own PE for 
DPF. But I don't think it's ever reasonable to publicly tell a creative 
thinker (and that includes us all) what they 'might want to' or 'should'

do. Smacks of control freakery and inverse elitism, which in any case is

likely to be ignored. Genuine creativity -- as you hint in the last 
paragraph -- involves beng true first and foremost to one's Self, daimon

(demon) or dharma (the capital S to distinguish it from the postmodern 
self).

Mervyn


jamie morgan writes
>Hi Radha,
>
>Marxism was an attempt to describe reality in order to transform it - 
>it was a description of an industrialised society at a particular time 
>and place - are you surprised that it did not fit the two thirds world 
>for which it was simply not designed, or is this itself a rhetorical 
>device?
>
>I'm not sure what the cultural issues have to do with whether Bhaskar 
>is difficult to read. Surely the central question is:
>
>Can the philosophical content of Bhaskar's work be expressed in a 
>simpler way without any loss of nuance or explanatory power?
>
>If the answer is yes then it would appear to be reasonable to suggest 
>that he might want to work on his style because he would be guilty of 
>over elaboration or obfuscation.
>
>Some might also suggest he should work on illustrating and applying his

>own work since thuis would make it less opaque.
>
>Then again, criticising someone for their style of thought and mode of 
>expression which whilst not necessarily the most transparent is their 
>mode of working and got them to the insights (such that they are) that 
>others are interested in, may be a little on the ironic side. I'm not 
>sure, I certainly find him difficult to folow sometimes but then I find

>lots of philosophers difficutl to follow. Hegel not the least.
>
>Jamie
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "r.dsouza"
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:16 AM
>Subject: BHA: Re: The tall poppy syndrome within CR
>
>
>> Mervyn
>> My spontaneous reaction to your mail was "why am I not surprised" 
>> followed by "but why is Mervyn (the writer of the new age, new left 
>> article) surprised?" and are you surprised Mervyn? I don't mean this 
>> as a
>rhetorical
>> question in any sense. Surely, CR is not exempt from a sociology of 
>> its
>own
>> and from its historical, cultural and political contexts that we talk
>about.
>> As someone from the so called "Third World" (which in my view, is the

>> two-thirds world) it interests me that with so many radical "schools 
>> of thought" in the so called "West", from scientific theories to 
>> Marxism, socialism et al, the problem for the two-thirds world is not

>> so much with the philosophy or theory per se (the text) but with the 
>> sociological and cultural assumptions (the context) that makes the 
>> theory/philosophy problematic. There appears to be threshold beyond 
>> which the theory/philosophy is constrained by its own cultural and 
>> historical
>context.
>> It certainly happened with Marxism in the "West" and the 
>> ramifications it had for the "Third World". Is it surprising at all 
>> that the so called "spiritual turn" should have invited the kind of 
>> response it did, or, for that matter the reactions on this list to 
>> the ad for a publicist recently (I don't recall how the position was 
>> described exactly now). And, do we not lapse quickly and comfortably 
>> into bourgeois norms of discourse or social practices for that 
>> matter, even when critiquing those norms in the issues we talk and 
>> write about? Calling it "tall poppy syndrome" is putting it too 
>> simplistically, it is much deeper than that. I am reminded of Rumi's 
>> famous story of the parrot and the merchant, (I don't know if you are

>> familiar with it). Indeed, like the parrot in the story, one has to 
>> give up things (die) to be free and enlightened, and to "gain" new 
>> things. I am not sure the adversarial and individualistic 
>> intellectual traditions in Western academic institutions ably guided 
>> by the "invisible hand of the market" are the most conducive places 
>> for an introspective approach that helps to locates oneself in the 
>> wider search for answers to the questions of our times. I am tempted 
>> to look into my crystal ball now to see what CR will look
>like
>> 25 years from now, but I think I will leave it for another time.
>>
>> Radha
>>
>>
>> --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>>
>
>
>
> --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---




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