From: "John Roberts" <spljmr-AT-lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:29:53 -0000 Subject: BHA: In defence of a realist Orwell Hi Mervyn I've just read your comments about Orwell. I wonder if we're reading the same George Orwell here i.e. the English novelist who wrote some famous literary works and is also seen as a precursor to cultural studies, critical discourse theory, post-colonial studies, theories of embodiment, questions of reflexivity in qualitative research, particular ethnography, studies of governance and power, autobiographical writing, etc. Taking this on board your statement that Orwell is much overrated as a thinker is pretty stunning I think. Let's take what Orwell wrote about the use of everyday language. It's been acknowledged for years now by critical linguists that Orwell outlined a complex theory of how language is used to position, create and govern subjectivities (see for example his novel 1984 and his famous essay 'Politics and the English Language'). As part of this theory Orwell tried to show that language has an underlying realist structure that becomes ideologically obscured on the 'surface' as its used by various power interests. Also, some have made connections between Orwell on this matter and the Marxist theorist of dialogue, Mikhail Bakhtin. But all of this is also to say that Orwell didn't simply believe that one should write in 'plain English'. Actually, Orwell believed that political writing should be an 'art form' that resonated with people's real lived experience. Try writing like Orwell - you'll soon realise that it's pretty difficult and takes a huge amount of effort. It's much easier to write like Bhaskar than Orwell! As for Orwell being more concerned about the Soviet system rather than capitalism, this just isn't true. Sure, Orwell was highly critical of Soviet socialism, but this is hardly surprising as he witnessed first hand the Soviet destruction of Spanish socialism during the Spanish civil war. Indeed, the Stalinists had a warrant for his arrest in Spain, and had they caught him he would probably have perished in their jails. But Orwell's criticism of Stalinism was a great asset. He was one of only a few on the Left during this period who saw through the ideology of Stalinism. Many other left-wing intellectuals welcomed Stalinism, and defended it. But anyway, Orwell never stopped criticising capitalism and it was hope that it would be eclipsed by socialism until his death. You only have to read The Road to Wigan Pier, A Homage to Catalonia, or The Lion and the Unicorn, to see that this was the case. Infact, Orwell was consistently trying to understand how the abstract structure of capitalism and imperialism reproduced itself into more everyday social, cultural and political forms of life. Again, I take this to be a realist position. On giving names of communists to British intelligence, this really is a red herring for not taking Orwell seriously and is utter nonsense. Have a look at Christopher Hitchens's 'Orwell's Victory', chpt. 7, for a complex and detailed account of all of this. My point is, is that Orwell does write about complex ideas and theories, but in a way that appeals to people. Perhaps this is why you think that Orwell is a rather simple writer. In reality he's an immensely rich, gifted and complex writer. But let's be empiricists for a minute. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I reckon that Orwell will still be talked about by people in all walks of life in another 100 years. Somehow, I'm not convinced that same can be said of Bhaskar. All the best John On 31 Oct 03, at 18:19, Mervyn Hartwig wrote: Hi Tobin Thanks for your comments. Orwell is something of a red herring I think. He didn't write meta-theory (so to introduce him is to compare apples with pears), and is IMO much overrated as a thinker. He judged the Soviet system the greater threat to humankind than capitalism, and because of that ended up giving the names of communists and 'sympathizers' to British intelligence 'like any fink from the Ministry of Truth' (Paul Foot). Of course, he is relevant if he's taken to be saying that all thought must be cast in the straightjacket of 'plain English' -- but my whole case is that this is a recipe for stifling creativity and promoting mediocrity. There is I think no important theory/practice inconsistency where the writing practices of Kant, Hegel, Adorno, Bhaskar are concerned. My general point is that what they had to say could only be worked out via writing that is complex, rich and difficult. When emergentists suggest that the Phenomenology or DPF could be translated (reduced) into much more accessible works without loss, now *that's* a theory/practice inconsistency. One does of course have a reponsibility to readers, but I agree with Bhaskar that the basis of this can only be truth to oneself, i.e. one must follow one's daimon. And in philosophy and science at any rate (elsewhere too probably) what is needed to 'follow the object' seems more important than catering to the needs of the audience as such (this will include precision in the elaboration and deployment of concepts, but much else besides). If one's ideas are any good people will appropriate them (as they have indeed appropriated Kant's and Hegel's -- two of the most difficult *and* most influential writers of the modern era). It seems to me you're applying, in the end, an abstractly universalist notion of what constitutes bad/good prose. But we've been over much of this before, as you noted in an earier comment. Doubtless we'll just have to agree to disagree -- and maybe get to discuss again some of the ideas the prose, however (in)adequately, conveys. Mervyn Tobin Nellhaus <nellhaus-AT-gis.net> writes >Ah, Howard, how I've missed you! It's wonderful to hear your voice again. > >Anyway: After Mervyn's adjusted quotation, he noted: > >> ---Adapted from Kathryn Dean, Capitalism and Citizenship, pp. 135-40 (in >> a publication, most of what I have written would be in quotes). A most >> excellent book, as advertised on this list a few weeks ago, >> distinguished by the rigour and precision of deployment of concepts, >> which make it possible to discuss important matters otherwise >> undiscussable, and *in no way 'verbose'.* > >This gets to something I've been mulling over, which is a difference in >defining good writing. Mervyn generally lauds precision, whereas others >(myself included) emphasize clarity and/or richness of imagery and/or other >ways of anticipating the needs of one's intended audience (none of which, by >the way, need imply "simplicity"). The two judgments aren't necessarily >related -- writing may be precise without being "good" in the second sense, >and writing can be wonderful yet nevertheless imprecise. I for one think >the later Bhaskar's writing may generally be precise (though there are some >dubious passages), but in most other respects it's dreadful. Even as simple >a tactic as breaking up sentences, or merely breaking up the paragraphs, >would help the reader enormously -- with probably a net increase rather than >loss of meaning. > >Orwell is right that lousy language messes with our ability to think. It's >a key point of "Politics and the English Language," and of *1984*. We *do* >have a responsibility to our audience. And I don't think saying that Hegel >and Adorno are as bad or worse is any commendation, or that being brilliant >gives anyone an ethical freebie. We may choose to overlook the problem >because of mitigating or compensating aspects, but that does not actually >resolve the theory/practice inconsistency. > >By the way, responsibility to the audience connects to Radha's argument >about acknowledging traditions: the practice of citation long preceeds >capitalism and any notion of intellectual property, not to speak of the >still younger idea of idea theft. It is very much a way of situating >oneself within (or in relation to) one or more traditions to which the >writer and some part of her audience belongs. > >Thanks, > >T. > >--- >Tobin Nellhaus >nellhaus-AT-mail.com >"Faith requires us to be materialists without flinching": C.S. Peirce > > > > --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- --- from list bhaskar-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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