Subject: RE: BHA: RE: Underlabouring
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:39:40 -0500
From: "Moodey, Richard W" <MOODEY001-AT-gannon.edu>


Hi Dave,
 
In rereading what I had written, I can see how it could have sounded bitter.  I'm sorry.  I'm not really bitter toward philosophers of science.  Early on in my own training in philosophy, I was encouraged to get a degree in a non-philosophical discipline, so that I would have substantive inquiry to reflect upon philosophically.  I have been guided in those reflections by Whitehead, Lonergan, and Polanyi, as well as by Bhaskar.  I am greatful to them.
 
Best regards,
 
Dick
 
 

________________________________

From: owner-bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU on behalf of David Harvey
Sent: Wed 3/24/2004 4:19 PM
To: bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
Subject: Re: BHA: RE: Underlabouring



Dear Richard,
You are undoubtedly very bitter.  Still htere is merit to see the world in terms of layered ontologies and the need to be alert as to the implications of hose various layerings vis-a-vis our researches.

Otherwise, there is much merit in what you say, especially about sociology's need for apple polishing no matter what the source:  make mine a Fuji.

Dave Harvey

"Moodey, Richard W" wrote:

> Hi David and Ismail,
>
> There is something appealing to me as a sociologist to think that the philosopher of science is my servant, getting things ready for me before I come to work, and cleaning up the messes I make.  My experience has been, however, that a philosopher of science is more likely to see herself as by boss, instructing me beforehand on how to go about my sociological work, and then coming around afterwards to explain to me what I really discovered (or, more likely, failed to discover).
>
> I have come to the position that philosophy is like brushing my teeth -- when we are grown-up, we prefer to do it for ourselves.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:owner-bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of David Harvey
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 10:07 AM
> To: bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
> Subject: Re: BHA: RE: Underlabouring
>
> Just off the top of my head, I believe you will find the concept of  "underlaboring" in Bhaskar's The Possibility of Naturalism. It refers to the role the philosophy of
> science, the philosophy of the social sciences in this case, plays in mapping or preparing the philosophical groundwork for doing social science research.  The underlaborer to
> the best of my understanding is the "set-up man" who shows up an hour before the craftsman does in order to set up the materials for the day's work and often stays an hour
> late cleaning up the dross of daily production, thus preparing  for the next days labor.
>
> I conceptualize the relation between philosophical underlaboring and scientific laboring in terms of two concentric circles. The outer circle is  philosophical ontology a
> "transcedental description" of the possible terrains  we as social scientists can and will traverse. Within that large circle is one's scientific ontology, rooted and
> continued within the first. The latter can not proceed with certainty to where the first has not yet gone.  At the same time, the first cannot specify the details of the
> terrain the specific science will enter. Finally, as a sociologist, I see a third circle, a so-called sociological ontology in my case, which consists of the social ontology
> within which the intellectual craftsman daily labors
>
> On my more anal-comulsive days I see the three circles as overly-orderly and concentric in orientation.  In reality, though, I should probably visualize them as off center,
> like Ptolemaic epicycles rolling around with in each other (I know, cornball).  Finally, Bhaskar's earlier works are brilliant aids of underlaboring for the social sciences.
> His later works are less of an underlaboring nature and more an attempt to clarify the structure of his own philosophical testament.
>
> Comments and corrections greatly appreciated.
>
> "Bailey,DJ (pgr)" wrote:
>
> > Bhaskar posits himself as an underlabourer of social science - i.e. he is working on the methodological basis upon which a sound social science can be conducted.
> >
> > see Realist Theory of Science/Possibility of Naturalism
> >
> >         -----Original Message-----
> >         From: Ismail Lagardien [mailto:ilagardien-AT-yahoo.com]
> >         Sent: Wed 24/03/2004 12:21
> >         To: bhaskar-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
> >         Cc:
> >         Subject: BHA: Underlabouring
> >
> >
> >
> >         Hi
> >
> >         I have come across the term "underlabouring" in several places... Can anyone give me a definition of it, please.
> >
> >         Ismail
> >
> >
> >         There May be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there never must be a time when we fail to protest." Elie Wiesel (1928- ) Writer, Nobel Laureate
> >
> >         ---------------------------------
> >           Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now
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> >
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