From: nuala.quinn-AT-dtn.ntl.com
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:24:32 +0100
Subject: Re: Crushing public replies!


hi kent,

perhaps i should have been a bit more constructive in my comments. I
agree with u re the importance of paying the utmost attention to the
production of knowledge, as opposed to knowledge in itself. I just find
it difficult sometime to make that distinction between science and
morals. As far as 'simple condemnation' goes, my understanding is that
this has been a core theme in most replies in this thread, including
your own- no malice intended- simply an observation. A chance for
reflection?

As for moving on, i think the time and the place is here and now. Moving
on to what? This discussion offers a chance to put theory into practice-
or into emails. 

kent strock wrote:
> 
> Nula,
> not sure why you are addressing Karl, but this mishap is a perfect example
> of the end of Habermas's enlightnement project.  I won't deny that there are
> aspects of it Habermas's project that are open for discussion with B. later
> work.  As for your judgement that simon's departure as childish...well
> perhaps, but it adds nothing to a discussion of carrying on social science
> work. What B. sets himself apart, his is breath of knowledge and his basic
> refelxive statement that no advances in knowledge can take place without
> advances in the production of such knowledge.  This is an absolute
> mantra...you can say he borrowed it from weber, but its much more radical.
> So if we want to understand  Simon's departure as science and not moral
> self-rightousness perhaps you should put more thought into your replies than
> simple condemnation. Simon was raising justified and the basis of bourdieu's
> thought in asking basic questions about the production of knowledge.  So he
> gets a nasty reply that leaves no room for response, just vitriol...what
> kind of response to you expect?  He has asked questions about the legitimacy
> and need for this group in terms of "advancement" of knowledge...not the
> list of other things that I have raised that noone has acknowldeged.
> 
> >Karl,
> >
> >i have followed the debate re Simon's departure. I dont see the
> >difficulty in why Simon shouldn't make his point clear re his departure.
> >Why should someone go to another group in order to understand what
> >someone is saying? Habermas' transparency is not all of a negative. Is
> >this the Times crossword or something? It does all seems a bit dramatic
> >to me. In fact, rather than stretching his departure to intellectual
> >hieghts, lets just understand it for what it was. It all seems a bit
> >childish. I don't want to be delibarately conflicting, that's just how i
> >see it. I think it should be noted that email is not the most obvious
> >way for communicating 'irony'. As for capabalities, who knows?
> >pat
> >
> >kent strock wrote:
> > >
> > > Kingsley,
> > >
> > > Just a short reply if I can help it. Perhaps Simon departed with a bit
> >of a
> > > dramatic splash, but the inability of this newsgroup to entertain the
> >subtly
> > > of the fuzzy logic and language and realize the satire in his farewell
> >is
> > > extremely disconcerting.  If you are looking for some perfect language
> > > situation that excludes the play of language...which the responses
> >missed,
> > > then go to the Habermas group.  The scholastism of the continual
> >definition
> > > of habitus and the supplications for references to be the good
> >bibliophile
> > > without understanding the basics of Bourdieu's reflexivity has been a
> > > continual problem.  If you want to be the good academic who sites all
> >the
> > > right sources to fulfill some false requirement, then he or I have every
> > > right to call people on the basics of bourdieu's thought and how it can
> >be
> > > extended, NOT just cited!
> > > Some may be tired of my tirade against this biblophilia, but there are
> > > basics concerning reflexivity and his relation to other  thinkers that
> >is
> > > much more important than habitus and heads of pins.  For you who
> >couldn't
> > > sense some sense or irony or satire in simon's goodbye, you have missed
> >so
> > > much of Bourdieu and the question of language in your attempts to
> > > operationalize or totally philophize him. Simon's adieu was much more
> > > complicated than anyone is probably capable off...at least as far as I
> >have
> > > seen. damn I hope that the fragmented traces can be put together to
> >extend
> > > beyond short blasts
> > >
> > > >From: Kingsley Garbett <kgarbett-AT-picknowl.com.au>
> > > >Reply-To: bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > > >To: "bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu"
> > > ><bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> > > >Subject: Crushing public replies!
> > > >Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:05:55 +0930
> > > >
> > > >My sympathies are with Debbie and Karen entirely,
> > > >
> > > >What do you make of this comment, Kent?
> > > >
> > > >I am piqued that Karen has outwitted me, infuriating me enough to make
> > > >me
> > > >unsubscribe after I had dispatched to her alone what I hoped was a
> > > >crushing public
> > > >reply
> > > >
> > > >Is that what the list is all about, crushing public replies?
> > > >
> > > >Pull the other one!
> > > >
> > > >Kingsley Garbett.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
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