From: "Chris Andersen" <cta1-AT-ualberta.ca> Subject: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:47:04 -0600 Hi Kent, At the risk of speaking for others, I assume the earlier 'start with the thinnest' comment was meant to indicate that it doesn't really matter where you start, just jump in and get reading. People read Bourdieu for all sorts of reasons, so one would start in different places for different purposes (obviously). And besides, Bourdieu was a lot like Foucault in that he was interested in how people stretched, pulled at and ruptured his concepts, even if they used them in a way not ultimately satisfying for him. In other words, there isn't necessarily any 'correct' way to read him (especially for those of us who have no interest in immanent critique). So, how about we start with the book with the prettiest cover? The nicest font? Incidentally, for someone who dabbles in Bourdieu (rather than possessing a comprehensive knowledge) I really want to commend those of you writing in on the list. Personally, I find most of Bourdieu's writing/prose boring beyond tears. This is (one would assume) a result of my lack of grounding in the various philosophical traditions from which he derives his critiques, etc. (not to mention his utter contempt for periods). However, some of you use his work really creatively and it's really helped ME engage in his texts more creatively than I had to this point. Lastly, has anyone here read the work of Stanley Fish? It seems to me that there numerous similarities between his and Bourdieu's projects (especially in a context of legal practice). I'm thinking specifically of Fish's "Doing what Comes Naturally: Change, Rhetoric, and the Practice of Theory in Literary and Legal Studies". Cheers, Chris <<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> Chris Andersen School of Native Studies 5-182 Education North University of Alberta Edmonton, AB, CANADA T6G 2G5 (780) 492 4814 - phone (780) 492 0527 - fax www.ualberta.ca/nativestudies -----Original Message----- From: owner-bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu [mailto:owner-bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu] On Behalf Of kent strock Sent: May 8, 2003 11:08 PM To: bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu Cc: sigmund5-AT-hotmail.com Subject: start with the thinnest??? to ask a question about academic habitus? why ask what is the thinnest book?? why priviledge it? the most intense discussion of habitus and the nature of academic practice, as following the "logic" all other practices...is in The Logic of Practice. This logic is not that of dominant scientific writing which fetishizes clarity...as does the dominant media. Despite the "democratization" of readings of Bourdieu in the name of a dated liberalism, there is much to be found which resists this call for simplification which only serves the corportization of America and the university and its system of cultural production. Bourdieu's notion of subjectivity and the responsibility of the academic calls for something more. Not just the rational enlightenment of the masses, but a different role for the academic and the method of production...both in terms of structure, but in method of writing. Bourdieu's earliest and most cogent argument concerns the continual return to the relation to the object of study-as the basis of "progress" makes, On Television, as a later text misguided. The mature works are a sumnation of a continual difficult and tortured process that is, as was mentioned in an earlier post, as extremely seductive as it is demanding. A man struggling with the role of the academic both intellectually and existentially. This is the Nietzschian Bourdieu, who took up a fight only with those strong enough to warranted his time...because they raised questions which haunted him...most notably Heidegger. BTW one of the most intersting works on TV in general, much better than Bourdieu's, which deals in part with Heidegger, but also Benjamin, Adorno, Derrida, Madonna, David Lynch is Richard Dienst's "Still Life in Real Time". Its out of print unfortunately and published by Duke Univeristy Press. An alternative interpretation of the later works is a dying man wanting to make a more direct and poignent effect on the world. which is sadder. Life is the lie we tell everybody else. -vic chesnutt >From: Pam Stello <stello-AT-socrates.berkeley.edu> >Reply-To: bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu >To: bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu >Subject: Re: a bit of everything plus a question - is habitus reproduced >mimetically? >Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:21:50 -0700 > >responding again to Iva's question re: habitus, perhaps we could begin a >group discussion about habitus. First, what is Bourdieu's thinnest book? >Perhaps we could use it as a basis to discuss habitus. Is it "On >Television"? I'm not sure where to begin with this myself though Iva's >question seems to me to get at the heart of the question of agency in >Bourdieu's work. Do others agree? > > > could anyone explain in greater detail the mechanism > > through which a person acquires a specific habitus? > >Bourdieu's writes that "...practice is the product of the habitus which is >itself the product of the embodiment of the immanent regularities and >tendancies of the world..." (1992: 138). As children agents come to embody >the structures of the social system through day-to-day practices in the >family. These experiences become sedimented structures. "Early experiences >have particular weight because the habitus tends to ensure its own >consistency...by rejecting information capable of calling into question its >accumulated information..." (1984: 60-61). My reading is that the process >through which one acquires a habitus is not a conflictual process. Further, >habitus is experienced unconsciously. When I read Bourdieu's work on the >habitus the questions that come up for me are how did the habitus as he >describes it come about historically? Why is there seeminly no agency in >his >account? Or is there? > > > is it fair to say bourdieu talks of a certain kind of > > mimesis? >I think Bourdieu is talking about a kind of mimesis. And he does present us >with a >corporeal model of knowledge. The point that interests me is Iva's quote: >"'What is learned by body is not something that one has...but something >that >one is.'" The process of acquision of the habitus Bourdieu describes as >universal is a historical process of commoditization. I think about this in >relation to "genius." Though no modern identity category works in isolation >of all other categories, just to offer a simplified example: At the start >of >the eighteenth century genius meant talents all or most individuals could >have for a moment. By the end of the eighteenth century, genius was no >longer a moment of inspiration. It became something a man could be, and >apart from environment and history. This is a process of commoditization. I >think that Bourdieu's work on the habitus habitus describes a historically >produced, political economic phenomenon, a part of the process of >commoditization. I would be interested to know if others agree and what >others think about how processes of commoditization work. In Iva's quote >below. I think again that she is describing commoditization: > >in developing new pedagogies of gender and > > race, the politicisation and contexualisation of > > knowledge is consistently obstructed by the intense > > individualisation typical of liberal academic > > institutions. so whereas on an individual level the > > histories of previously 'marginalised peoples are now > > 'legitimate objects of study...this legitimation takes > > place at an attitudinal, interpersonal level rather > > than in terms of a fundamental challenge to hegemonic > > knowledge and...> instead of changing the field, the potential political > > significance of new types of knowledge is disabled > > through their entry into a pre-established field. what > > you end up is a form of conflict resolution - before > > the conflict. > > > > > > could anyone explain in greater detail the mechanism > > through which a person acquires a specific habitus? > > > > in pascalian meditations bourdieu criticises sartre's > > description of a waiter 'playing at being a waiter', > > i.e consciously adopting a role in attempt to perform > > his job while all the time maintaining the capacity to > > free himself of the role. he writes: > > > > 'This does not mean he [the waiter] has learned to be > > the waiter by imitatimg waiters, constituted as > > explicit models. He enters into the character of the > > waiter not as an actor playing a part, but rather as a > > child imitates his father and, without even needing to > > 'pretend', adopts a way of using the mouth when > > talking or swinging his shoulders when walking which > > seems to him constitutive of the social being of the > > accopmlished adult.' (Pascalian Meditations, Polity > > Press, Cambridge: 2000, p.154) > > > > is it fair to say bourdieu talks of a certain kind of > > mimesis? could anyone point me to more literature on > > the subject, both in bourdieu and else (especially in > > relation to frankfurt school)? > > > > recently there was a debate on this list about b. in > > relation to marx: doesn't bourdieu present us with a > > corporeal model of knowledge ('What is learned by body > > is not something that one has...but something that one > > is.'), which cancels both rationalist and > > functionalist theories of action. in this sense it > > might be wrong to say he obscures the line between the > > 'exploiters and the exploited' but rather points to > > the inadequacy of rationalist emancipatory attempts > > that aim for a change in consciousness that would > > automatically also lead to a change in practice. on > > the other hand, this could also mean that a change in > > the field can only be effective, if it, in a way, > > takes hold of the body. > > > > for instance (and in relation to whether a change of > > academic discourse can by itself guarantee a change in > > the field): in developing new pedagogies of gender and > > race, the politicisation and contexualisation of > > knowledge is consistently obstructed by the intense > > individualisation typical of liberal academic > > institutions. so whereas on an individual level the > > histories of previously 'marginalised peoples are now > > 'legitimate objects of study...this legitimation takes > > place at an attitudinal, interpersonal level rather > > than in terms of a fundamental challenge to hegemonic > > knowledge and history'(Chandra Talpade Mohanty, 'On > > Race and Voice: Challenegs for Liberal Education in > > the 90s' in Henry Giroux and Peter McLaren (eds), > > Between Borders: Pedagogy and the Politics of Cultural > > Studies, Routledge, New York: 1994, p.154; both > > McLaren and Giroux are an excellent reference point). > > instead of changing the field, the potential political > > significance of new types of knowledge is disabled > > through their entry into a pre-established field. what > > you end up is a form of conflict resolution - before > > the conflict. > > > > anyway, i really should stop here. sorry again for > > this lengthy reply (a result of my being a sadly > > irregular correspondent) and thank you all for your > > input, in the past few weeks this list has been very > > interesting to read indeed. > > > > take care > > > > iva. > > > > ps. why does it matter so much what bourdieu's book > > you read first? i don't get the impression he was big > > on beginning and middle and end. start with the thinnest? > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! 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