Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 12:43:37 +0100 (BST)
From: Jon Beasley-Murray <jon.beasley-murray-AT-man.ac.uk>
Subject: example of what I mean...
Here's an example of what I mean by problematic posting. This affects
people like me in particular, in that I read the digest version of the
list, and so have to go past each message to read all that's been
posted. Let me just comment briefly on a recent digest I received...
On Thu, 1 May 2003, bourdieu-digest wrote:
> bourdieu-digest Thursday, May 1 2003 Volume 01 : Number 516
OK, so this is a recent digest, number 516.
> "Glen Fuller" RE: online bourdieu study group
> "Pam Stello" Re: online bourdieu study group
It contained two messages. The first from Glen Fuller...
> Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:53:57 +1000
> From: "Glen Fuller" <g.fuller-AT-uws.edu.au>
> Subject: RE: online bourdieu study group
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
When I see text such as this, I know that I'm going to get some gunk,
and that probably Glen's software is configured so that it sends
messages out in html...
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C30FF1.7ED50310
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
And this text shows that what follows is but the first part of the
message, in plain ascii. Lists such as this really only work with plain
ascii. I know that this will be the only part of the message I can read
with any ease...
> Well why don't we just hijack this list and if there are any problems
...and so it proves. The readable part of the message follows on.
[snip 22 lines of message]
> Cheerio,
> Glen.
Cheerio, Glen! But look, this isn't the end of your message...
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> [mailto:owner-bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu] On Behalf Of Pam
> Stello
> Sent: Thursday, 1 May 2003 2:38 PM
> To: bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Subject: Re: online bourdieu study group
>
> If there are no objections to opening up this list to a more basic
> discussion of Bourdieu, that would work well. I suggested starting a new
> list b/c I thought a discussion for beginners might be well beyond the
> intended use of the list.
>
> Pam
OK, Glen has included the whole of Pam's message in his own. But that's
not all...
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: David C. Bartecchi <mailto:dbartecchi-AT-yahoo.com>
> To: bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:56 PM
> Subject: Re: online bourdieu study group
>
> Why not just use this list? It would be a shame to start a new list and
> then have everyone on this list migrate to it.
> However, I am relatively new here (~ 6 months) and don't know its
> intended purpose and scope but I do know that it has been relatively
> inactive since I've been on it. What do some of it's early members (or
> moderator) feel about opening it up to a more basic discussion of
> Bourdieu? Or is better to start another list?
> David Bartecchi
As Pam included David's message, and Glen has included the whole of Pam's
message, then David's post continues its half life in email. But that's
not all...
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/search/mailsig/*http:/search.yahoo.com>
> Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
OK, we get some rubbish from yahoo. Not really anyone's fault. (Except
yahoo's.) But the message isn't over. All the above was only the first
part.
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C30FF1.7ED50310
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK, here's the next part of Glen's message. Let's see how that looks...
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" > xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" > xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" > xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
Aargh! It's html code! Some mailreaders will understand it. But not
mine. And not most other ones, either. (This is why your own mail
programme very sensibly sent out the message twice, first in a manner I
could understand.)
> <head>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; > charset=us-ascii">
Oh no, the html continues...
> <meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document>
> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10">
> <meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 10">
> <link rel=File-List href="cid:filelist.xml-AT-01C30FF1.7DEDD760">
> <link rel=Edit-Time-Data href="cid:editdata.mso-AT-01C30FF1.7DEDD760">
> <!--[if !mso]>
> <style>
> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
> o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
> w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
> .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
> </style>
...and continues...
> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
> namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > name="country-region"/>
> <o:SmartTagType > namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
> name="place"/>
...and continues...
[snip 100 more lines of html gunk]
> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
> </head>
...look, over a hundred lines later, and we're still in the <head> tag.
Not only is it html code, but it's crap html code. (Oh, did I see above
that it was created by Microsoft Office? Perhaps that explains it... ;)).
Anyhow, let's keep going...
> <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=blue > style='tab-interval:36.0pt'>
The junk continues!
> <div class=Section1>
>
> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span > style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Well why don’t we just hijack > this
> list and if there are any problems from the establishment then we move? > (“In-ter-<span
> class=SpellE>po</span>-late, in-ter-<span > class=SpellE>po</span>-late,” so
> said the <span class=SpellE>Althussarian</span> <span > class=SpellE>darlek</span>
> in a modulated authoritative voice.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span > style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
Oh, do you see, buried in here is the first paragraph of Glen's message.
Not that it's all that easy to figure out. It's mixed up in all sorts of
weired html gunk.
[snip 76 lines of Glen's html-encoded message]
> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span > style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Cheerio,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> >
>
> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span > style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Glen.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
Oh, cheerio again, Glen!
[snip 9 more lines of gunk]
> - --Original
> Message-----<br>
> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> > owner-bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> [mailto:owner-bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu] <b><span > style='font-weight:
> bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Pam Stello<br>
> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, 1 May > 2003 2:38 PM<br>
> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
> bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu<br>
> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: online > bourdieu study
> group</span></font></p>
Oh, look, here comes Pam's message again, this time html-encoded...
[snip 49 lines of Pam's html-encoded message]
> <div style='font-color:black'>
>
> <p class=MsoNormal > style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font
> size=2 face=Arial><span > style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
> bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span > style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a href="mailto:dbartecchi-AT-yahoo.com"
> title="dbartecchi-AT-yahoo.com">David C. Bartecchi</a> > <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
And here's David's message still enjoying it's uncanny half-life...
[snip 97 lines of David's html-encoded message plus the encoded yahoo
gunk]
> </body>
>
> </html>
Hooray! The html's at an end.
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C30FF1.7ED50310--
Aargh, there's more!
> **********************************************************************
> Contributions: bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Commands: majordomo-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Requests: bourdieu-approval-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
OK, at least this is just the bit that the spoon machine adds to every
message that goes out on this list.
Phew. Now, let's see what's next in the digest today...
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:50:56 -0700
> From: "Pam Stello" <stello-AT-socrates.berkeley.edu>
> Subject: Re: online bourdieu study group
Pam's message. Great.
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Uh-oh. Bad news ahead...
[snip 106 lines of Pam's message, which includes Glen's message, which
includes Pam's earlier message, which includes David's original message.
At least that part was in ascii, so I could read it.]
But now look...
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0391_01C30F6A.F629F240
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh, no...
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v =
> "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =
> "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =
> "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 =
> "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD>
> <META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" > http-equiv=Content-Type>
> <META content=Word.Document name=ProgId>
> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR>
> <META content="Microsoft Word 10" name=Originator><LINK
> href="cid:filelist.xml-AT-01C30FF1.7DEDD760" rel=File-List><LINK
> href="cid:editdata.mso-AT-01C30FF1.7DEDD760" rel=Edit-Time-Data><!--[if > !mso]>
Aargh, it's true. More ugly html generated by Microsoft Office.
[snip 106 lines of gunk]
> mso-style-parent:"";
> mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;
> mso-para-margin:0cm;
> mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
> mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
> font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:"Times New Roman";}
...after 106 lines, we're still only defining styles. Let's go back to
deleting...
[snip 53 lines]
> style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Although, I > don’t
> about everyone else but I think a separate list will allow us > beginners to
> feel more comfortable. <SPAN class=GramE>Particularly when people > are being
OK, I recognize this message. Read it already. Back to deleting...
[snip 65 lines]
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy face=Arial size=2><SPAN
> style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: > 10pt">Glen.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
Oh, cheerio again, Glen!
[snip 106 lines]
> shame to
> start a new list and then have everyone on this list migrate to it.
> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" > size=3><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">However, I am relatively new here (~ 6 > months) and
> don't know its intended purpose and scope but I do know that it has > been
OK, is this still David's message doing the rounds?
[snip 41 lines]
> End of bourdieu-digest V1 #516
> ******************************
Hey, the two message are finally done. And with them, the end of the
digest...
Take care
Jon
Jon Beasley-Murray
Latin American Studies
University of Manchester
jon.beasley-murray-AT-man.ac.uk
http://www.art.man.ac.uk/SPANISH/staff/jbm.htm
http://www.art.man.ac.uk/lacs/
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