File spoon-archives/bourdieu.archive/bourdieu_2004/bourdieu.0401, message 46


Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 11:36:31 -0800
From: Patrick Crosby <pcrosby-AT-ieee.org>
Subject: Re: [BOU:] l'affaire du foulard


First of all, my post was addressed to him, not you. Nonetheless, if you 
find what he says informative, that's just fine. But that just makes me 
suspect all the more that it should have been a private email, since a) 
in clearly being unwilling to address any of the specifics, you are now 
treating it as such; b) it made very little sense to anyone else, as far 
as I can tell.

  Your  characterization of my mention of the rigged US election of  
2000/1 as a mere  "rant"  (in large measure because tens of thousands of 
African Americans in Florida, where "W"'s brother is governor, and a 
crony of his named Katherine Harris ran the election, were illegally 
prevented from voting) only  shows  your lack of understanding of what 
is going on today in the most powerful nation the world has ever seen. 
That's surprising, since most Europeans seem to understand this than 
most Americans.  It also shows that you have very little understanding 
of how the US Government, at least in *theory,* is *supposed* to work. 
Well, even if you don't, I do, and I have every right to say so when 
things go as terribly afoul as they did in the US Presidential election 
of 2000--- especially when the consequences are global, and quite 
relevant to the topic under discussion.
   Still if you had wanted to challenge the specifics of what I said, 
that too would have been a part of normal academic debate, and very much 
a part of what this list is supposed to be about. But merely insulting 
me by branding everything I said in one broad brush as a "rant" (with 
the clearly intended implication that it was utterly worthless and 
without merit) is something quite different. It is rather, *precisely* 
what Hegel was talking about in the essay "Who Thinks Abstractly?"  I 
shall be expecting more of the same from you in the future; and if that 
indeed proves to be the case, I will certainly be allotting to your 
posts the amount of attention they will therefore deserve.

  (English translation by Kauffman available on the web for anyone who 
is interest. It's probably the most entertaining thing Hegel ever wrote).
   
john.kaman wrote:

>Dear Patrick,
>
>I am new to the list and only recently encountered Par Engholm's name.
>Paranoia reigns--comment on anything you like.  As far as I am concerned you are not intruding on an old friendship.  As for Par's comments comments, I find them informative as opposed to the rant illustrated by your post below.
>If you fel that strongly, you should put your ideas into action and get out of whatever university you are hiding in.  They can hear you anyway so what difference does it make?
>
>John Kaman
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-bourdieu-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
>[mailto:owner-bourdieu-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU]On Behalf Of Patrick
>Crosby
>Sent: lundi 5 janvier 2004 17:46
>To: bourdieu-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
>Subject: Re: [BOU:] l'affaire du foulard
>
>
>Par Engholm wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Salut John!
>>Merci pour ta lettre.
>>As an old 'leftist' I find it very strange how academic radicals
>>nowadays find any comfort or see any hope in islamic fundamentalism as
>>a force against the ills of capitalism, or US imperialism.
>>    
>>
>
>Maybe this is just a personal letter between you an an old friend, and I
>shouldn't comment on it at all. However, personal letter exchange is not
>what a list such as this is about normally about, so I will.  In the
>future, if you want your remarks to John to be private, I think you can
>simply email him privately.
>
>   If indeed you find it strange that " academic radicals nowadays
>find... comfort or see...  hope in Islamic fundamentalism as a force
>against the ills of capitalism, or US imperialism" one has to wonder how
>closely you have followed what the administration "President Select"
>Bush, who was not elected, but installed by the "Gang of 5" traitors
>sitting on the US Supreme Court, has done military in the last year. One
>also has to wonder if you've ever even heard of the PNAC document, which
>clearly shows that the current ruling US Military junta had this all
>planned years ago (the document can be downloaded from
>http://www.raytal.com/gate.html).
>    Evidently, you don't the resistance encountered in Iraq has changed
>thing one iota. But really, you're not say what you think at all. You're
>just poking fun and ridiculing those who may have come to a conclusion
>very different from yours. That to me, at least, is something less than
>a high watermark of scholarship and academic debate.
>
>  
>
>>But I think it reflects somehow the deep seated defeatism which has
>>spread among former apologets for the actually existing socialism.
>>Bourdieu in this sense did go against the stream when he became
>>politically more active towards the end of his life.
>>    
>>
>Would you mind telling us what the phrase " former apologets for the
>actually existing socialism" means, assuming that it actually *does*
>mean something?  Are you saying here that the US is a socialist state?
>If so, are you planning an appearances at any of the comedy clubs here
>in Southern California? I'd like to attend one of your shows if you are.
>If not, you might consider that as a possibility.
>**********************************************************************
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>
>**********************************************************************
>Contributions: bourdieu-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
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>
>  
>

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