Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:41:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Patrick Crosby <pfcrosby-AT-yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [BOU:] Re:Re: Home of Bourdieu


It's sad that we got off on this tangent, but I do
understand both sides. Both make quite valid points. 
There are probably a great many universities in the US
and elsewhere that could be persuaded to host this
list, but not in a week's time. Committees,
admistrators, and so forth in most cases need to get
involved. A number of viable options have been
proposed, and I for one cannot readily say which is
the better. Whatever choice is ultimately made I think
is going to be a bit of a gamble. Two or three people
so far have expressed a preference for one. I
personally would be fine with that. Anyone have any
objections? If not, I move we go with that. If it
doesn't work out, we can try Google (which sounds
easier to set up than Yahoo for reason of the required
individual registrations there. I gather Google
doesn't require that). 

--- j laari <jlaari-AT-cc.jyu.fi> wrote:

> Malgosia,
> 
> I'm not sure anymore what we are disputing. It seems
> things aren't 
> exactly the same in North America and in Europe.
> Here universities 
> are state universities, i.e. publicly funded, acting
> and serving on a 
> state budget base, doing things the uni laws
> require. That applies 
> also on computing centres (uni cc's). I think
> there's nothing 
> miraculous about setting up the facilities. Indeed,
> it's as laborous 
> as any technical work. I knew few people who went to
> the private side 
> because of the stress caused by the hassle of uni cc
> environment. 
> However, once the facilities up and running - from
> the viewpoint of 
> end-user like me - then they surely are there, as if
> waiting someone 
> to use them.
> 
> When I spoke of public duty of universities - not of
> computing 
> centres - I had in mind your original question:
> 
> "I am seriously asking. Do you have some ethical
> precept that says 
> mailing lists should be run for free?"
> 
> My answer was and is: yes, I have, if not ethical,
> at least in a 
> certain sense normative idea of public institution
> like university to 
> do its share of public services, provided that list
> contents are of 
> any intellectual/cultural worth. I don't have a
> slightest idea how 
> this sounds in a probably a lot more competitive
> society like yours, 
> but up here this isn't exactly a renegade idea.
> 
> (Actually, here in Finland the government maintains
> that universities 
> have certain responsibilities in relation to
> competitiveness of the 
> society on the global market etc. etc. Call it
> totalitarian or 
> whatever - that's the name of the game today whether
> we like it or 
> not. To exaggerate a little: ministry of education
> sets new criteria 
> for unis faster than anyone can meet them. In short:
> at least here 
> unis do have certain public duties for the benefit
> of society. - 
> However, the idea of "duty" I share isn't exactly
> politically correct 
> utilitarianism, like the dominating policy is, but a
> value-
> theoretical view: unis must accommodate themselves
> to contemporary 
> culture in order to have serious cultural value
> today. Part of that 
> is providing (material and intellectual) tools for
> enhancing 
> reflective social discussion - and god knows there's
> lot to do on 
> that front. In a way, it's in a budget of a unis
> even to participate 
> in providing some of these tools.)
> 
> We can continue about that tomorrow. Now I got to go
> home. It's time 
> for the supper.
> 
> Sincerely, Jukka L
> 
> > You talk about this as if these things
> miraculously and sponanteously
> > sprung out of the fertile soil of the
> institutional environment. 
> > Listservers, like any computer software, require
> money and human labor
> > to be set up and to run.  They are not just
> "there", "waiting". 
> > Somebody labored to set them up for a specific
> purpose on a hardware
> > that somebody paid for, for a specific purpose. 
> And these things
> > consume resources.  Somebody has to pay for those,
> and somebody has to
> >  maintain them with their labor. (...)
> 
>
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