Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:58:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: TMB <tblan-AT-telerama.lm.com>
Subject: Re: Re: machines




The main deal appears to me to be a hypostatic language. These things can
be thought in innumerable ways. It appeals to a hypostatic/metaphysical
impulse. It's ok as far as it goes, but something is wrong, too.

TMB




On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, JONATHAN RUBIN wrote:

> 
> Organisms also "produce" stuff; desiring-organisms "produce."
> If anything will "date" AO and D/G it will be this, I think, this 
> outdated reliance on mechanisms, metaphoric or not.
> 
> >Alan
> 
> The reason that D&G don't use a term such as "organism" is that for them 
> an organism is a molar concept i.e. you can use it but by doing so you 
> are obscuring/denying/invalidating a whole load of other processes - 
> molecular ones. Likewise it is necessary to realise that they explicitly 
> reject the whole mechanism/vitalism or organism debate as again relying 
> on molar concepts that obscure the machinic nature of processes.
> I'd also think that the whole is it a metaphor or isn't it is also 
> ignoring two important points. Firstly as a consequence of Deleuze's 
> naturalism what a thing is, can/is always sufficiently answered by a 
> description of what a thing does - there is nothing more to say after 
> such a description. So once you've described what these "things" do 
> namely interupt, divert and channel flows then there is no question that 
> these "things" are machines.
> Desiring machines are productive, desire is productive, with that I have 
> no argument at all.
> But I think that it would be more accurate to speak of desiring machines 
> not as prouducing flows (which smacks of the ex nihilo to me) but always 
> of producing new flows. There are no flows without there being machines 
> and likewise there are no machines except at the interstercies of 
> flow/new flow.
> 
> Jon.
> 
> 
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It is natural that those who benefit from the organization of state and
private power will portray it as inevitable, so that the victims will feel
helpless to act.  -- Noam Chomsky