From: "Widder,NE" <N.E.Widder-AT-lse.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: For those of you who know your German.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:31:56 -0000


Yamazaki,

Thanks again.  I wasn't really looking for any direct connection between
Nietzsche and this saying.  It's just that, certainly in the Anglo-American
world, the Zarathustra passage about going to woman and not forgetting your
whip is taken as one of the most brute and crude examples of Nietzsche's
mysogeny.  I was simply wondering whether "Zuckerbrot und Peitsche" was in
use at the time of his writing (it appears that it was), and if so whether
there might be any reason to think his passage was making a reference to it.
Nietzsche is fairly clear that for truth, women or nature, any unambiguous
and dogmatic approach to them is formula for disaster.  Also, in courting a
woman (or, if a philosopher, in courting 'truth'), it's pretty clear that
it's a good idea to bring something sweet, so the reminder to bring 'a whip'
would seem appropriate.

Nathan
n.e.widder-AT-lse.ac.uk



> -----Original Message-----
> From:	f1221-AT-cc.nagasaki-u.ac.jp [SMTP:f1221-AT-cc.nagasaki-u.ac.jp]
> Sent:	27 January 1999 14:39
> To:	deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Subject:	RE: For those of you who know your German.
> 
> At 10:22 PM 99.1.25, Widder,NE wrote:
> [...]
> >         Thanks.  This is helpful.  But given the connections Nietzsche
> makes
> > with truth being a woman and nature being a woman, and says none of them
> can
> > be treated in any straightforward way, why exactly does the saying have
> > nothing to do with him?
> >
> >         Nathan
> >         n.e.widder-AT-lse.ac.uk
> 
> 
> Oh well, >why exactly< ... but I`ll try:
> 
> 1. I do not know why you associate >Zuckerbrot und Peitsche<
> with women or nature. So let me just say that >Zuckerbrot<
> [>sugar bread<] is a somewhat old-fashioned word for biscuit,
> and nowadays used almost exclusively as a metaphor for a
> small reward or gratification. The word sounds slightly funny
> and has mild connotations suggesting bait, bribery, pampered
> children or pacifiers.
> [I could cite some examples from German literature to illustrate
> this, but all I know are a bit bizarre, so I dare not do so.]
> 
> >Peitsche< is the everyday-German word for whip. It has no
> obvious connection to women [or nature or truth], except for the
> quote from Zaratusthra.
> 
> If I was asked what English saying comes closest to it, I`d
> chose: >Bamboozle and Bamboo<.
> 
> 2. The saying cannot be traced to any well-known author.
> It came to fame when it was applied to Otto von Bismarck`s
> politics towards the Social Democratic Party. In May 1878,
> the assassination of the German emperor was attempted.
> [This was wrongly blamed on >Socialists<]. Seizing the
> opportunity, Bismarck urged the introduction of the
> famous -or infamous- >Sozialistengesetze< to keep the
> Social Democratic Party in check, and at the same time
> devised the >Sozialversicherungen< [social security
> insurance], partly as a concession to the Social Democratic
> Party -the >Zuckerbrot< part of his politics. So I think
> there is no direct historical connection with Nietzsche.
> 
> 3. Though he did not use exactly these words, JG Hamann criticized
> Friedrich II of Prussia [and Kant] for using [rsp advising] politics of
> >Zuckerbrot and Peische<. There are certailly parallels to Nietzsche,
> but I think there are more differences.
> 
> 
> This is as exact an answer as I can offer.
> 
> sincerely
> -Yamazaki
> 
>