From: "Alexander Patterson" <nou-AT-clnet.cz>
Subject: PKF: Re: Re: Conquest of Abundance
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:14:04 +0100


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.



In response to these postings on PKF re: postmodernism: I wonder if postmodernism
even forms a coherent way of thinking yet. I have always seen it in deconstructionist light
otherwise I can see no sense it at all except as a repository for many fragments of different
types of outlook and knowledge, which is perhaps what it is, but which makes it nothing at
all.

I remember what TODDVANNOY-AT-aol.com wrote
/Like Rorty's form of
| neo-pragmatist ethnocentrism, which also capitulates any claims on
| epistemology, postmodernism leaves a toothless-relativism in the wake of 
| Modernist- Enlightenment progressivism. In the absence of coherent
| philosophical formulations,
| there is the implicit acceptance and validation of sociological cohesive,
| fundamentally reactionery ontologies, i.e. fundamentalism, ultra-nationalism,
| etc.
| Habermas, for example, has attempted to salvage the ethical imperatives of
| the
| Enlightenment within a postmodern discourse, but he appears to be an isolated
| voice.

I have to say that postmodernism only makes sense to me re: PKF or anyone/anaything else
if your see it as form of positive deconstruciton of enlightenment values and texts (not destruction of them),
i.e. I see postmodernism as making sense if it only means to remove the layers of historical
epistemes from cases throughout modern history, in particular contexts (Berlin airlift, Potsdam,
I don=B4t know, whatever) and see what is left if anything at all.

Thats why I think it makes sense to form stories around the points of gravity in the whole postmodernist
debate and discours (not in Rorty sense of stories - see Putnum on its impotence) but e.g. as I have
tried to write in postings like Feyerabend and Holderlin.

Bit complex, hope I havent upset anyone always a risk that.
Just my view and I think it would good to discuss PKF on the applicational
side of his work (its potential, not just hermeneutical attempts to understand him or exegisis his works)

Regards



Alexander Patterson :
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  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Avner Cohen
  To: feyerabend-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
  Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 4:51 PM
  Subject: PKF: Re: Conquest of Abundance


  The point about postmodernism is an interesting one.  I recall that in the early-mid 1980s, when the phrase "postmodernism" was still fresh and hardly used, I made the point (to Dick Rorty among others) that PKF's "postmodernist" outlook is derived from the same outlook that we found among the classical Greek skeptics, the Phyrronian skeptics (e.g., Sextus Empiricus, not the Academic skeptics) as well from later Skeptics such as Montaigne.  This skepticism carries a lot of resemblance, in motivation and outlook, with current postmodernism.  To the best of my knowledge, PKF has never said much about classical skepticism--am I right on this.  John Preston, could you kindly send a copy of your article as an email attachment?  I wonder what the other three 'post-modern' views you refer to are...
  
  Yes, I also just got my hand on The Conquest of Abundance a couple of days ago and just starting reading it.  Thank you Bert for this important labor of love.  I wish Chicago Press would have allowed a few pictures of the original ms. 
  
  Finally, a query to all: does anybody knows of video footage of PKF, in conversation or a public talk?  What about some interviews in German or Swiss TV?  Is there anything available publicly?  Are these pieces or copies of them also in the Archive in Konstanz?  I, for one, would be very interested to get my hand on such footage.  Any ideas how?  Avner

  Avner Cohen

  Senior Fellow
  National Security Archive
  Washington DC

  and
  Senior Research Scholar
  Center for International and Security Studies at Maryland (CISSM)
  University of Maryland

  Tel: 301-578-1906
  Cell: 202-489-6282
  FAX: 301-578-1904

  Home Page: www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: John Preston
    To: feyerabend-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
    Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 4:40 AM
    Subject: PKF: Conquest of Abundance


    There's an article about this, Science as Supermarket: Post-Modern Themes in Paul Feyerabends Later Philosophy of Science, Studies in History and Philosophy of Science, volume 29, no.3, 1998, pp.425-447. It's by me, I'm afraid. It's also about to appear in the very-shortly-forthcoming volume J.Preston, G.Munévar & D.Lamb (eds.), The Worst Enemy of Science?: Essays in Memory of Paul Feyerabend, (New York: Oxford University Press, 2000). (ISBN 0-19-512874-5), about which I'll post more info on this list once it appears.
        The article argues that Feyerabend's last work (exactly the stuff that has just appeared in The Conquest of Abundance) is indeed post-modern in some of the respects David specifies below, and others too. Without summarising the whole thing here, here's the first paragraph, which should convey its flavour:
    "Philosophy of science is perhaps the area of philosophy in which post-modernism has had the least penetration, and has been least discussed. My intention here is to clarify both Feyerabends last work and the nature of the post-modern by situating that work relative to three different positions in the philosophy of science which have been called post-modern. However, I am less concerned to clinch the case for Feyerabends having become a postmodernist, than to use that position as foil against which accurately to convey and critically evaluate the central themes in his later philosophy."

    All the best,

    John Preston
    Senior Lecturer,
    Department of Philosophy,
    The University of Reading,
    Reading RG6 6AA,
    England.

    Department Tel. 0118-931-8325 International Tel. +44-118-931-8325
    Department Fax. 0118-931-8295 International Fax. +44-118-931-8295

    Homepage: http://www.reading.ac.uk/AcaDepts/ld/Philos/jmp.htm
     

    David Geelan wrote:

      I've just received a copy of Conquest of Abundance, PKF's new book. Bert
      Terpstra has done a wonderful job of editing together the unfinished
      manuscript and other archival materials to make a fascinating, coherent
      book that preserves Paul's tone and approach beautifully. I'm enjoying
      the book very much, and it's resonating very strongly with the issues I
      had already been considering. I'll try to raise some questions in the
      list once I finish reading the book, but for now I just want to urge you
      to get hold of it as soon as possible.
      I know I promised a review of 'For and Against Method', and I do still
      plan to do that too. One intriguing facet of that book is the insight
      into PKF's writing style - the continuing revisions and rewrites and
      dissatisfactions and illuminations. It becomes clearer why the three
      editions of AM are so different!

      It's great to see the list coming to life again a little (welcome
      Tomas!), and I hope this can be continued. One question that occurs to
      me:

      In 'Conquest of Abundance', Paul does not (so far as I can see anyway)
      use the term 'postmodernism' in relation to his point, but I have been
      coming to many of the same issues - the richness, complexity and
      fragmentariness of Being and experience, as against the relative aridity
      of our theoretical schemes for trying to describe it - from a postmodern
      (though not deconstructionist) perspective. Is PKF's perspective
      postmodern, or does it really not fit on that axis (modern-postmodern)?

      Warm regards,

      David
      **********************************************************************
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----- Original Message -----

From: Avner Cohen

To: feyerabend-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu

Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 4:51 PM

Subject: PKF: Re: Conquest of Abundance

The point about postmodernism is an interesting one.  I recall that in the early-mid 1980s, when the phrase "postmodernism" was still fresh and hardly used, I made the point (to Dick Rorty among others) that PKF's "postmodernist" outlook is derived from the same outlook that we found among the classical Greek skeptics, the Phyrronian skeptics (e.g., Sextus Empiricus, not the Academic skeptics) as well from later Skeptics such as Montaigne.  This skepticism carries a lot of resemblance, in motivation and outlook, with current postmodernism.  To the best of my knowledge, PKF has never said much about classical skepticism--am I right on this.  John Preston, could you kindly send a copy of your article as an email attachment?  I wonder what the other three 'post-modern' views you refer to are...

 

Yes, I also just got my hand on The Conquest of Abundance a couple of days ago and just starting reading it.  Thank you Bert for this important labor of love.  I wish Chicago Press would have allowed a few pictures of the original ms. 

 

Finally, a query to all: does anybody knows of video footage of PKF, in conversation or a public talk?  What about some interviews in German or Swiss TV?  Is there anything available publicly?  Are these pieces or copies of them also in the Archive in Konstanz?  I, for one, would be very interested to get my hand on such footage.  Any ideas how?  Avner

 

Avner Cohen

 

Senior Fellow
National Security Archive
Washington DC

 

and
Senior Research Scholar
Center for International and Security Studies at Maryland (CISSM)
University of Maryland

 

Tel: 301-578-1906
Cell: 202-489-6282
FAX: 301-578-1904

 

Home Page: www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel

----- Original Message -----

From: John Preston

To: feyerabend-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu

Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 4:40 AM

Subject: PKF: Conquest of Abundance

There's an article about this, Science as Supermarket: Post-Modern Themes in Paul Feyerabends Later Philosophy of Science, Studies in History and Philosophy of Science, volume 29, no.3, 1998, pp.425-447. It's by me, I'm afraid. It's also about to appear in the very-shortly-forthcoming volume J.Preston, G.Munévar & D.Lamb (eds.), The Worst Enemy of Science?: Essays in Memory of Paul Feyerabend, (New York: Oxford University Press, 2000). (ISBN 0-19-512874-5), about which I'll post more info on this list once it appears.
    The article argues that Feyerabend's last work (exactly the stuff that has just appeared in The Conquest of Abundance) is indeed post-modern in some of the respects David specifies below, and others too. Without summarising the whole thing here, here's the first paragraph, which should convey its flavour:

"Philosophy of science is perhaps the area of philosophy in which post-modernism has had the least penetration, and has been least discussed. My intention here is to clarify both Feyerabends last work and the nature of the post-modern by situating that work relative to three different positions in the philosophy of science which have been called post-modern. However, I am less concerned to clinch the case for Feyerabends having become a postmodernist, than to use that position as foil against which accurately to convey and critically evaluate the central themes in his later philosophy."

All the best,

John Preston
Senior Lecturer,
Department of Philosophy,
The University of Reading,
Reading RG6 6AA,
England.

Department Tel. 0118-931-8325 International Tel. +44-118-931-8325
Department Fax. 0118-931-8295 International Fax. +44-118-931-8295

Homepage: http://www.reading.ac.uk/AcaDepts/ld/Philos/jmp.htm
 

David Geelan wrote:

I've just received a copy of Conquest of Abundance, PKF's new book. Bert
Terpstra has done a wonderful job of editing together the unfinished
manuscript and other archival materials to make a fascinating, coherent
book that preserves Paul's tone and approach beautifully. I'm enjoying
the book very much, and it's resonating very strongly with the issues I
had already been considering. I'll try to raise some questions in the
list once I finish reading the book, but for now I just want to urge you
to get hold of it as soon as possible.

I know I promised a review of 'For and Against Method', and I do still
plan to do that too. One intriguing facet of that book is the insight
into PKF's writing style - the continuing revisions and rewrites and
dissatisfactions and illuminations. It becomes clearer why the three
editions of AM are so different!

It's great to see the list coming to life again a little (welcome
Tomas!), and I hope this can be continued. One question that occurs to
me:

In 'Conquest of Abundance', Paul does not (so far as I can see anyway)
use the term 'postmodernism' in relation to his point, but I have been
coming to many of the same issues - the richness, complexity and
fragmentariness of Being and experience, as against the relative aridity
of our theoretical schemes for trying to describe it - from a postmodern
(though not deconstructionist) perspective. Is PKF's perspective
postmodern, or does it really not fit on that axis (modern-postmodern)?

Warm regards,

David
**********************************************************************
Contributions: mailto:feyerabend-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Commands: mailto:majordomo-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Requests: mailto:feyerabend-approval-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu