Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:12:19 -0800 (PST)
From: rutger h cornets de groot <cornets-AT-yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fun and Stupid


Hugh,

I am not sure that art is about communication, or that
the need to express oneself is about communication. I
am also not sure that what is expressed is the artist.
Any social aspect is not essential to art and it might
be that the artist is a medium, more than a first
instance. 

I liked "Oh Brother" a lot. All the crazy characters
that populate the US are exposed, that is, the US
themselves are exposed, as in one big carnival pageant
that is reminiscent of Fellini. A political movie,
after all.
--- hugh bone <hbone-AT-optonline.net> wrote:
> Sarah, et.al.,
> 
> "Oh Brother" is fun and stupid, but too long.
> 
> It's ironic that art is about communication, a
> "need" to express,
> communicate to others, yet one who has an important
> aesthetic experience
> viewing a painting, a sculpture, a movie, often
> knows nothing of the artist
> who produced it, and may not care.
> 
> The identity of the artist who made the "Winged
> Victory of Samothrace" or
> the one who designed the "Pantheon" is not
> important.
> 
> But as a practical matter, students of the arts want
> to learn about the
> great artists, their personalities and techniques. 
> Others, look foward to
> the next production of living artists whose works we
> appreciate.
> 
> The preoccupation with  "suffering" and its relation
> to a viewer's own life,
> can be interesting, but may lead away from art and
> into religion, psychology
> etc. as others have noted.
> 
> Hugh
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> Lita Coucher wrote:
> 
> > > >What about someone like Spielberg?  He had a
> normal childhood and a
> great
> > > >adulthood, and makes stellar films.
> 
> Sarah Lockhart wrote:
> > Spielberg certainly makes well-crafted films,
> well-crafted like
> > pre-Raphaelite paintings are well-crafted. 
> Personally and
> > intellectually, I find them bland, dishonest and
> manipulative.  One
> > could argue that perhaps because he had such a
> privileged life, any
> > portrayal of suffering he would make would be
> manipulative and
> > dishonest.  That would be a variant of your
> standard issue auteur theory
> > crossed with the Romantic idea of the tortured
> artist.
> >
> > Someone recently posted to the list, commenting
> that why don't we
> > consider suffering in the case of a carpenter. 
> Used to be that an
> > artist and a carpenter weren't too different, both
> were considered
> > crafts:  the artist painted pretty pictures of
> Jesus and the carpenter
> > made pretty furniture.
> >
> >  I think necessary suffering is a
> > > >religious idea that has permeated society in
> other realms, art being
> just
> > > >one.
> >
> > Which brings us to the Romantics, art as religion,
> artist as saint,
> > sensitive to his/her nature, to Nature, and so
> forth, as a nice contrast
> > to the "soulless capitalists" who were rising from
> the medieval muck.
> > Suffering being a physical marker of the artist's
> sensitive soul, of the
> > artist's true experience of the world.  Suffering
> being a sign that one
> > is committed to one's art and isn't merely a
> Sunday painter. Suffering
> > also being a sign that the artist wasn't "just a
> tool of the Man"
> > (though the Romantics wouldn't have put it that
> way).
> >
> > There are times when learning and truth do come
> from suffering, but I
> > > >hope it does not need to be so.
> >
> > Then we come to the issue that a lot of art is
> about suffering.  We get
> > into the identity politics of "How can director X
> make an honest film
> > about the experience of minority group Y when
> director X isn't a part of
> > that group or was fortunate enough not to have to
> endure as much
> > suffering as many members of that group?" We go
> back to evaluating the
> > autobiography of the artist for an evaluation of
> the authenticity, hence
> > quality, of the artist's work. We get caught up in
> the politics of
> > keeping it real, where the true artist is the one
> who has suffered the
> > most, but in order to remain authentic and true,
> the artist has to keep
> > making art about that experience.
> >
> > While suffering and "challenging life experience"
> does contribute a lot
> > to art, I end up asking, "Just because someone has
> suffered and creates
> > art, does it make the work good?"  I hesitate to
> fall into the trap of,
> > "Well, before I decide whether I found this piece
> worthwhile, I need to
> > know its creator's background."  A work that is
> intended to be seen
> > apart from its maker needs to have its own
> integrity.
> >
> > > >I love films that shake me up, but I refuse to
> restrict myself to
> enjoying
> > > >those that are only sad or traumatic.
> >
> > I don't think that anyone was suggesting that one
> should only enjoy sad
> > or traumatic films.  It _is_ easier to win a
> judgment of "important" or
> > "great" from "the authorities" if the film's
> content is sad or
> > traumatic. Just look at Lars Von Trier or
> Spielberg's recent films.
> > However, pardon the sarcasm, films like the recent
> "Romeo, Juliet, and
> > the Iceberg" and "Saving Private Crusoe" show that
> suffering does not a
> > great film make.  In fact, their mawkishness makes
> me appreciate films
> > like the current release, "Dude, Where's My Car?"
> which won't win
> > anyone's Best Picture, but at least is honest
> about being fun and
> > stupid.
> >
> > Sarah Lockhart
> >
> >
> >
> >      --- from list
> film-theory-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
>      --- from list
> film-theory-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---


====APROPOS - Rutger H Cornets de Groot, Writer, Translator
English-Dutch Freelance Translation Services
Essays on Film, Art, Literature, Philosophy
a p r o p o s
http://sites.netscape.net/cornets/apropos
cornets-AT-xs4all.nl / cornets-AT-yahoo.com
"The quality of a good translation can never be captured by the original".

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