Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:05:48 +0200 (SST)
From: Lubna Nadvi <lnadvi-AT-pixie.udw.ac.za>
Subject: Re: why do we not kill? 




dear mitchell wilson

Hi, 

Thank you for the comments. Firstly, my question of why do we not kill, 
was not articulated as a justification for killing, no I do not condone 
killing at all. It might be understandable, not necessarily acceptable in 
cases of self-defence, but for me killing is not acceptable (but that is 
according to notions of morality that  have been both developed from 
religious scriptures and constructed by society). Killing for us 
humans 
would only be natural in so far as we are still animals (admittedly on 
the highest level of the animal kingdom). However we are the so called 
most civilised of the animal species. My question of why do we not kill 
was an attempt to understand the moral systems that we as humans are 
subject to that tell us that killing is bad. Are animals (who only kill 
when they are hungry or to defend their territory), also subject to the 
same moral conditions ? No obviously not, so for them killing is probably 
more natural than it would be for humans. But how far off are we really from 
the lower order animals, are we really 
as civilized and morally superior as we claim to be ? I would like to 
believe that we are, so if killing is not supposed to be natural for us, 
maybe the question should be, why is it that we kill. 
(I'm not claimimg that killing as the act itself is natural, but rather 
that the drive ie, thanatos, is. How we choose to express the 
destructive drive can range from mild destruction to murder)

No, I have never had the desire to kill another human being. Nor would I 
resolve a situation by murdering someone. I believe 
in the right to live and let live. My question once again, was academic, 
but obviously with serious social and practical implications. Yes, I 
agree with you when you say that there is an essential human nature, that 
of us communicating with each other in this manner. Yes as humans we are 
social beings, but society has gone wrong somewhere, when killing somehow 
becomes the way to resolve something. If more people could talk to each 
other and understand, and even challenge and question (non-violently), as 
you have challenged me (which I appreciate by the way), there would be progress.

 I detest and abhor rape, and consider it and murder two of the most 
horrific acts against humanity. The fact that I ask these questions 
does not make me a monster, but a seeker of knowledge.      

Another question, how does one define a psycopath, is it because one 
has killed that one becomes a psycopath (does society create psycopaths 
 as Foucault would probably argue), or is it an intrinsic, natural 
personality. 

Your thoughts

Lubna 



On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, mitchell wilson wrote:

 
> no, you're the one who is asserting the extraordinary:  that our species
> killing one another is natural.  so the burden of proof is on you. 
> therefore, the question is not why do we not kill, but rather why do we
> kill.
> 
> feral children were never homicidal maniacs, yet no social institutions
> had taught them not to kill.
> 
> and, come on! first of all, you are muddying the waters between idioms,
> actualities and drives.  let me ask you:  have you ever REALLY wanted to
> kill someone?  i mean, have you ever wanted to pick up a hammer, and
> REALLY wanted to smash in someone's skull?  i don't believe that you
> have.  you mat have FRAMED you displeasure or aggression in those terms,
> as do little children and adults, neither of who literally mean what
> they say.  and the fact that some people HAVE killed does not mean that
> everyone WANTS to kill.  only a true psychopath WANTS to kill.  so
> saying that you "want to kill" someone or that people kill WHEN they
> assume that they HAVE to kill is not wanting, in a natural way, to
> kill.  
> 
> and yes, there is an essential human nature:  that which we are engaging
> in right now.  let me ask you, could we communicate, as is our nature,
> were we to kill one another?  or do you simply not believe that humans
> are social creatures?  and if we are, which we are, then isn't killing
> when something has gone awry?  and if killing is part of being social,
> then asking why do we not kill is like asking why do we not rape?  or
> maybe you believe that to rape is natural too?
> 
> well, i've picked on you for long enough.  and i'm looking forward to a
> response.
>