From: "ronald tuch" <rontee707-AT-nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: foucault and agency [Franois Gagnon]
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 09:03:49 -0500


That is a very interesting point, that the individual's particular personal
contribution to a larger social/historical event may not be meaningful, if
that is the right word. But the use of email itself is important is it not.
Using email and thus validating it as an important way to communicate is
important.  How does email itself contribute
to the larger historical event. How did telephones contribute to the two
world wars. Individual phone calls made a million times by millions of
people did not matter--but did not the use of the phone matter? Could these
wars have been fought without phones and the wireless?  Had millions of
people NOT used emails and rejected the internet and thus 'turned it off,"
as an investment for companies and a personal investment in time and money
by individuals--had emailing not been guaranteed such a prominent position
in history-technology, then the role played by emailing in the revolution
may have been minimalized. What about emails now being intercepted to catch
terrorists?  Are they not using emails because emailing has been set up as a
network of communication throughout the world?  The individual acts may not
be important but the instrumentality of the act is important--the validation
and the sustenance of the instruments  are what make the individual acts
profound in a larger context.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ali Rizvi" <ali_m_rizvi-AT-hotmail.com>
To: <foucault-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: foucault and agency [Franois Gagnon]


>
> I think it should be carefully determined on what level it is appropriate
to
> say, according to Foucault, "it does not matter who act". Take for example
> four different levels (roughly) on which this claim can be analysed.
>
> I am writing this email. Of course it does matter that I am writing it and
> not you if considering the question of who wrote this email.
>
> I am writing this email. Now to what extent this writing of email matters
> considering my self-constitution. It does matter but to a lesser extent
and
> there are and may be various other factors which are relevant and may be
> more important.
>
> I am writing this email. Consider this with reference to a possibility of
> revolution in near future in say (Foucauldian studies). Well may be it has
> some (fractional) relevance but it hardly matters that (who) wrote this
> mail. It would be more relevant to consider the situation of who wrote
> the email in this context.
>
> I am writing this email. Consider this with reference to a possibility of
> revolution on system wide level. Well it is almost irrelevant and it
almost
> does not matter at all (who) wrote email in this context.
>
> Foucault's purpose was not to deny agent or the efficacy of his actions
but
> to show its limitations. Even when we do act, or say something, the moment
> we utter something or act, the action and words take there own life and in
> turn determine us and others. It was the force of this anonymity in
history
> that Foucault tried to emphasise in his formulations in the context of
> Enlightenment claims about powers and limitless capabilities of man.
>
> best
> ali
>
>
>
>
>
> [That is not what one would call a denial of agency.  Of the subject,
> probably - and it is debatable.  I would say though that this does not
> exlude
> the impression, reading Foucault, that "it doesn't matter who act" and
> therefore that his analysis are affect-less, focusing rather on impersonal
> rationalities of government that somewhat lack their 'human'
incorporation.]
>
>
>
>
>
> Selon suannschafer-AT-earthlink.net:
>
>  > >Foucault's critics as a routine confuse his rejection of subject
>  > >with the rejection of agency. It is not the same thing to dney
>  > >agency and subject. One can believe in agency without believing in
>  > >the notion of subject as understood in Cartesian and Enlightenment
>  > >tradtion.
>  >
>  > That's interesting.  Can you elaborate?  Thanks in advance!
>  >
>
>
> Franois Gagnon
> tudiant au Doctorat
> Dpartement de Communication
> Universit de Montral
> (514)343-6111 poste 1464
>
>
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