File spoon-archives/french-feminism.archive/french-feminism_2001/french-feminism.0111, message 17


Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:08:01 EST
Subject: Re: irigaray & colour



--part1_18.15c05dda.292dfe51_boundary

Hello Hilary,

In a message dated 11/18/2001 10:55:21 AM Central Standard Time, 
h.robinson-AT-ulst.ac.uk writes:

> 
> Hi Simone
> 
> Good to hear from you - I know of those references in Irigaray's work 
> - and look forward to the translation of Between East and West, due 
> to be published soon. 

Fantastic!

I was wondering if anyone has written on this 
> strand in Irigaray's work - and would love to see a copy of your 
> paper, if that would be possible. (maybe send it to my private email 
> address, but continue the conversation on-list?).


Hilary, I'll send the paper along this weekend.  It's a summary of a chapter 
in my dissertation.  Perhaps the chapter would be more useful?  You choose: 
read twenty pages, or sixty?  My work is based more in An Ethics than in the 
later books, but I've read them, and refer to them as confirmation for my 
'intuitions' in the dissertation.  Of course, I would like to read and see 
what you are doing as well.  How did I mangage not to respond to your post 
before?  Most perplexing.


> 
>   My own thesis was on the implications of Irigaray's work for 
> contemporary feminist art practices and criticism. In begining to 
> theorize the artwork as mediation between artist and audience, in an 
> intersubjective relation (rather than, as is usual in art theory, 
> reading the artwork as an object in subject-object relation to both 
> artist and audience - or artwork as symptom) the work on buddhism was 
> very useful. 

My approach is more about looking at how intersubjectivity is handled in 
poems.  There is the poet, the reader, and poem as interval between them, but 
then there are the relations to an other in the poem itself, whether that 
other is a person, or time, or Being, or some object or idea.  So there are 
levels of these relations in play all at the same time.  My focus, for the 
sake of clarity more than anything, is on the subject-in-the-poem's relation 
to the other-subject-in-the-poem.   It's messy to try to write about, but I'm 
trying anyway.  


My partner is an artist and has practiced rinzai zen (an > 
> austere Japanese form) for over 30 years, so I used his extensive 
> library to help me find readings of, for example, the passages where 
> LI discusses buddha and the flower. 

Ah, well, then, you will likely find yourself correcting me on some of my 
argument and interpretation.

However, I did feel a little > 
> isolated in this! it is an aspect of her work that commentators tend 
> to skirt. I'm now working on turning my thesis into a book, and wish 
> to re-address this material, particularly in the light of recent 
> translations.

I have been warned that I shall be branded a mystic.  As if I have a probelm 
with that.  I don't think that academics in the Humanities can long afford to 
ignore the mystic elements in poets and artists and philosophers.  We must 
confront that element of the human.  Without it, the whole endeavor is 
incomplete, crippled in some way. Neitzsche had Ekhardt, Derrida had the 
Kabbalah, and Irigaray has Buddha and the Tantrists. What is so dangerous 
about exploring these influences and connections?  Why not simply own up to 
it?  I don't understand.  At least we are no longer isolated.  This is 
wonderful.  As far as I know, unfortunately, there is none or precious little 
critical work on her that addresses these elements and influences in her 
work.  Though now,  I think it will be unavoidable after Two Be Two.  We had 
better hurry up and get our work out there to publish. 

> 
> And of course her mentions of colour are totally apposite for any 
> discussion of visual art - Flesh Colours is the main essay, though 
> there are other mentions through the work. Again, it's not something 
> that folk seem to have engaged with.
> I'd love to know what your thoughts are - particularly on her 
> discussions of Buddhism -

It's late here in Dallas, and I am in charge of the several desserts for 
tomorrow's Thanksgiving feast.  I wrote because I realized that I had 
neglected to respond to you for several days.  My apologies.  I would love to 
have such a discussion, especially since it was following my intuitions about 
Buddhism and Tantra in her work that got me exploring Buddhism and yoga.  I 
would grow from talking with someone whose experiences with these things are 
deeper than mine currently are.  I would be delighted.

Be well,
Simone

^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
In the face of laughter, nothing can stand.
                   Mark Twain

Our glances, our smiles, are spent; laughs
exude from all our mouths; our blood flows
and we extend ourselves without ever reaching
an end; we never hold back our thoughts,
our signs, our writing; and we're not afraid
of lacking.
                   Helen Cixous

Simone Roberts, Ph. D. Candidate, A.B.D.
Humanities: Studies in Literature
University of Texas-Dallas

       "in Literature" means:
(19th and 20th Century European 
and American Poetics and Literature,
Literary Theory, and Feminist Philosophy,
all with a "History of Ideas" flava)

--part1_18.15c05dda.292dfe51_boundary

HTML VERSION:

Hello Hilary,

In a message dated 11/18/2001 10:55:21 AM Central Standard Time, h.robinson-AT-ulst.ac.uk writes:


Hi Simone

Good to hear from you - I know of those references in Irigaray's work
- and look forward to the translation of Between East and West, due
to be published soon.


Fantastic!

I was wondering if anyone has written on this

strand in Irigaray's work - and would love to see a copy of your
paper, if that would be possible. (maybe send it to my private email
address, but continue the conversation on-list?).



Hilary, I'll send the paper along this weekend.  It's a summary of a chapter in my dissertation.  Perhaps the chapter would be more useful?  You choose: read twenty pages, or sixty?  My work is based more in An Ethics than in the later books, but I've read them, and refer to them as confirmation for my 'intuitions' in the dissertation.  Of course, I would like to read and see what you are doing as well.  How did I mangage not to respond to your post before?  Most perplexing.



  My own thesis was on the implications of Irigaray's work for
contemporary feminist art practices and criticism. In begining to
theorize the artwork as mediation between artist and audience, in an
intersubjective relation (rather than, as is usual in art theory,
reading the artwork as an object in subject-object relation to both
artist and audience - or artwork as symptom) the work on buddhism was
very useful.


My approach is more about looking at how intersubjectivity is handled in poems.  There is the poet, the reader, and poem as interval between them, but then there are the relations to an other in the poem itself, whether that other is a person, or time, or Being, or some object or idea.  So there are levels of these relations in play all at the same time.  My focus, for the sake of clarity more than anything, is on the subject-in-the-poem's relation to the other-subject-in-the-poem.   It's messy to try to write about, but I'm trying anyway. 


My partner is an artist and has practiced rinzai zen (an

austere Japanese form) for over 30 years, so I used his extensive
library to help me find readings of, for example, the passages where
LI discusses buddha and the flower.


Ah, well, then, you will likely find yourself correcting me on some of my argument and interpretation.

However, I did feel a little

isolated in this! it is an aspect of her work that commentators tend
to skirt. I'm now working on turning my thesis into a book, and wish
to re-address this material, particularly in the light of recent
translations.


I have been warned that I shall be branded a mystic.  As if I have a probelm with that.  I don't think that academics in the Humanities can long afford to ignore the mystic elements in poets and artists and philosophers.  We must confront that element of the human.  Without it, the whole endeavor is incomplete, crippled in some way. Neitzsche had Ekhardt, Derrida had the Kabbalah, and Irigaray has Buddha and the Tantrists. What is so dangerous about exploring these influences and connections?  Why not simply own up to it?  I don't understand.  At least we are no longer isolated.  This is wonderful.  As far as I know, unfortunately, there is none or precious little critical work on her that addresses these elements and influences in her work.  Though now,  I think it will be unavoidable after Two Be Two.  We had better hurry up and get our work out there to publish.


And of course her mentions of colour are totally apposite for any
discussion of visual art - Flesh Colours is the main essay, though
there are other mentions through the work. Again, it's not something
that folk seem to have engaged with.
I'd love to know what your thoughts are - particularly on her
discussions of Buddhism -


It's late here in Dallas, and I am in charge of the several desserts for tomorrow's Thanksgiving feast.  I wrote because I realized that I had neglected to respond to you for several days.  My apologies.  I would love to have such a discussion, especially since it was following my intuitions about Buddhism and Tantra in her work that got me exploring Buddhism and yoga.  I would grow from talking with someone whose experiences with these things are deeper than mine currently are.  I would be delighted.

Be well,
Simone

^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
In the face of laughter, nothing can stand.
                   Mark Twain

Our glances, our smiles, are spent; laughs
exude from all our mouths; our blood flows
and we extend ourselves without ever reaching
an end; we never hold back our thoughts,
our signs, our writing; and we're not afraid
of lacking.
                   Helen Cixous

Simone Roberts, Ph. D. Candidate, A.B.D.
Humanities: Studies in Literature
University of Texas-Dallas

       "in Literature" means:
(19th and 20th Century European
and American Poetics and Literature,
Literary Theory, and Feminist Philosophy,
all with a "History of Ideas" flava)
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