Subject: HAB: Re: Citizens and Communication
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:09:02 -0000


Harry answers his own question about Rob's distinction between 'humans' and
'citizens'.  He says: "Communicative action is  ultimately oriented toward
'social' decision making. It is the means through which members of a society
come to organize their society by 'rational' means for rational ends."

"members of a society" sounds to me like a pretty good definition of
'citizens'.

So Robs question seems quite reasonable: "Does Habermas confine
'communicative action' to the scope of 'citizens' (eg rather than 'humans')
as a way of trying to approximate 'those who might reasonably be expected to
share communicative competence in the context of any particular
communicative episode'?"

So does he?  I'd like to hear some views on this too.

Incidentally, does it ever worry anyone - even given the specialist nature
of a list like this - that discussion that is essentially about theories of
effective communication would be 100 percent incomprehensible to anyone
without a couple of years specialist study under their belts?  Does this
strike anybody as odd?  Or can these ideas only be expressed within the
jargons they create?

Cheers, Tim.


>I'd like to reply to Rob. I just joined the list so I don't know what Vic
said, but regarding Rob's remark. I ask, what does he mean by 'humans' as
opposed to 'citizens'? Communicative action is  ultimately oriented toward
'social' decision making. It is the means through which members of a society
come to organize their society by 'rational' means for rational ends.
Rational here means something that permits freedom without violence. Or
freedom not bought at the expense of suffering. Perhaps one could learn from
Habermas's thesis on communicative competence, and practice it in personal
human relationships. But Habermas is a political and social philosopher, not
a marriage consultant.
>
>Regards, Harry
>
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