Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:22:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary E Davis <gedavis1-AT-yahoo.com> Subject: HAB: Ken's psychoanalytic addendum [K] In Habermas's earlier work (Towards a Theory of Communicative Competence, 129 and in the essay on hermeneutics and universality, 202) he makes explicit the correspondence between the agencies of the personality and the deformations of intersubjectivity. [G] Of course. Distorted intersubjectivity is reflected in distortions of intrapsychic processes. Internalization of distortion. But mapping intrapsychic processes into intersubjective processes of norm-formation and norm-testing is not valid. It's like saying: A maps to B, therefore B maps to A. Not valid. [K] He also notes, in Theory and Practice (242, 244), that the superego is not excluded from public communication, rather, is libidinally charged. [G] O, great. Because Habermas writes about the superego in 1971, you're going to apply it to discourse-theoretical contexts without argument in 1990 or so. [K] This libidinally charged superego is subject to rationalization, in a sense, which is indicated when Habermas translates Freud's energetics model into a communicative model. [G] But rationalization of intrapsychic processes (as psychoanalysis normally done) is not discourse-theoretical moral work. [K] This is further evinced in Habermas's Communication and the Evolution of Society (70) and in TCA, II where are talks about the integration the superego.... [G] Interest in Freud is evinced in another context where he talks? But this isn't relevant to undertanding the intersubjective role of identity in moral deliberations. [KJ] ... and the I in his discussion of Mead (41-45) and where he points out that social roles take form along the lines of the superego (and social desires along the lines of the id) (99). [G] Whoa, guy. Processes of identity formation are a very different context from representation of subjectivity in norm-testing processes. You're all over the map. If you get to a quote from the Mead essay, you'll find that you're exploiting Habermas's text for your vague context. [K] The idea .... [G] Which idea? You're just writing, not arguing anything cogent. [K] ...is also manifest in Habermas's Genealogical essay (4) and in Habermas's essay "Individuation through Socialization" (183). Framing the question of individuation through socialization in psychoanalytic terms is not antithetical to Habermas's understanding of the cognitive content of morality. [G] But Habermas does *not* "frame the question of individuation...in psychoanalytic terms," and this is irrelevant to moral discourse, while remaining no more antithetical than that identity plays into one's deliberations on value and norm-proposal acceptability in interaction. But discourse about identity formation is not a framework for discourse about moral deliberation. [K] Although Habermas does not explicitly formulate it in psychoanalytic terms, he could have. [G] Well, then make arguments about what could have been done, don't map your own interest into his text and then make claims about what he's doing. Your burden to make sense of your own problematic is not a basis for claims about what Habermas is doing. [K] More to the point, his work does require psychoanalytic confirmation as part of its cumulative success regardless. [G] "His work"? In total? It requires nothing of the sort. [K] I'd also wager that the burden, given Habermas's consistency above and my appropriation of this consistency, does not reside on my part to show the way in which the superego, the ideal-ego and intersubjectivity are linked. [G] WRONG. But you've not *indicated* any singular context of consistency; you've found Freud relevant to several discursively distant contexts. You've not appropriated any consistency at all. Yet of COURSE the superego, ego ideal and intersubjectivity are linked *for identity*. But how identity figures into *intersubjective* processes of norm-binding deliberation and norm-testing *presumes* a given identity formation, not a on-the-spot reconstruction of identity-formative processes or reformation of identity (except indirectly, in complex effects of radical interactions). Gary __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com --- from list habermas-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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